Real Money, Real Experts

Money Talks: How to Heal Your Financial Story with Erika Wasserman

• AFCPE® • Season 6 • Episode 136

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In this episode of Real Money, Real Experts, hosts Rachael DeLeon and Dr. Brandy Baxter sit down with Erika Wasserman, Certified Financial Therapist and author of Conversations with Your Financial Therapist: Stories and Scripts to Grow Your Financial Mindset. Erika shares how her personal journey—spanning a corporate career, global travel, motherhood, and personal transformation—shaped her holistic approach to financial well-being.

Together, they unpack the emotional side of money—how values, relationships, and even shame influence the way we spend, save, and talk about finances. Erika offers practical tools for breaking money taboos, building confidence, and creating space for empathy in financial conversations.

Whether you work directly with clients or are exploring your own relationship with money, this episode will inspire you to say yes to compassion and start the conversations that lead to financial clarity and confidence.

Show Notes: 

00:00 Welcome to Real Money, Real Experts

03:13 Erika’s Journey to Financial Therapy

05:08 Why Money Fights Aren’t About Money

06:58 Breaking the Cycle of Money Shame

09:24 The Power of Compassion in Financial Conversations

10:52 How to Start Difficult Money Conversations

13:36 Inside the Growing Field of Financial Therapy

15:40 Why Professionals Must Know Their Own Money Story

18:59 Erika’s Two Cents


Show Note Links:

Grab your copy of Erika's book!

Connect with Erika on LinkedIn!

Follow 'Your Financial Therapist' on Instagram

Explore 'Your Financial Therapist' on Amazon!

Check out 'Your Financial Therapist' website! 

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Here are a few places to start: Become a Member, Sign up for an Essentials Course, or Get AFC Certified today!

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Rachael DeLeon:

Welcome to Real Money Real Experts, where we bring you interviews with leading financial professionals, sharing their stories, their challenges, and their advice for helping people manage money in the real world. I'm your host, Rachel DeLeon, Executive Director of the Association for Financial Counseling and Planning Education, or AFCPE.

Dr. Brandy Baxter:

And I'm your co-host, Dr. Brandi Baxter, accredited financial counselor, AFCPE member, and your 2025 AFCPE Board President. On every episode, we take a deep dive into the topics and stories that you care about the most, helping clients, building community, and growing in your work and your career.

Rachael DeLeon:

Meet Erica Wasserman, your go-to financial empowerment expert. Erica is a dynamic force in the world of financial transformation. Armed with a finance degree from the University of Florida and a decade-long career at IBM, she's also made waves in the organic food industry, bringing a unique mix of corporate savvy and innovative thinking to financial wellness. Her newly released book, Conversations with Your Financial Therapist, Stories and Scripts to Grow Your Financial Mindset, reflects her passion for making money talk both accessible and transformative. Her own journey reads like an adventure novel: marriage, relocating to Asia, raising kids, divorce, dating, and the loss of a parent. Experiences that have shaped her empathetic, holistic approach to financial well-being. Erica is one of just 100 certified financial therapists in the country and holds a graduate certificate in financial therapy from Kansas State University. She's also created the Let's Talk Finances conversation cards, igniting meaningful dialogue at every stage of life. She has been quoted in the national media, including the New York Times, U.S. News and Report, Nerdwallet, and Yahoo Money. Based in sunny South Florida, Erica is a devoted single mom to three teenage girls and an avid traveler who has explored 48 countries and counting. Whether through her engaging one-on-one sessions, empathful speaking engagements, or innovative tools, Erica is all about guiding you on a path to financial clarity and confidence. Welcome to the show, Erica.

Erika Wasserman:

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here with you.

Rachael DeLeon:

Erica, I love the energy that just radiates from your bio. So whether it is travel or financial therapy or organic food, I feel like there is so much to unpack along your journey. And before we kind of dig in, I'm curious, how did you end up as a financial therapist on this path to, you know, financial empowerment?

Erika Wasserman:

Yeah, it's a great question. My roller coaster of life has taken me here. I don't know about you, but my life has come with some twists and turns, and some that make my hands throw up and scream with excitement, right? Like when at 23 I got a job with IBM and I thought I was rich. Ha ha ha. Right. And then some that made my stomach drop, like when I got divorced with three kids under the age of four. And all of these things kept happening in my orbit. And we all have our own personal journey. And what I noticed was I had a different relationship with money than the people around me. I grew up in a house where talking about money was normal. My dad noticed that I had a thing for math. And so going to the grocery store, we would do math problems. You know, two cans of beans are 99 cents. How much is one can? At the checkout counter, we're counting the money. I'm getting the change. And we just started having dialogue around money, but by teenage years, one computer in the family at that time, you know, and we started trading stocks when I was around 13 together. Cause I was just curious of what he was doing. And so, right, so the roller coaster of life started to unfold. And I noticed that people around me weren't having conversations around money or didn't have people to talk to. So later on in life, after my divorce and the kids and my father passing, my mom was 50 years of a traditional marriage, who's very bright, has a PhD, but never handled the finances in the family. Shortly after I heard the term financial therapist and like a light bulb moment went off. And I was like, this is my calling. This is what I'm meant to do, is help people on the emotional side of money because they were not getting exposed to that side in most places. They didn't get it nurturing in their home and we don't teach it in school and we don't talk about it with our friends. And so don't ask me to run a marathon, but come talk to me about money, and I'm your coach.

Rachael DeLeon:

Erica, I think it's phenomenal when you grow up in a space where, you know, money is talked about openly and honestly. I think for a lot of families, the only times maybe they talk about money is when there is something like a fight about money or a scarcity around money. So, you know, we've all heard the phrase money fights, but you argue that they're not really about dollars and cents. If that's not the case, then what are they about? And how do families reframe these types of complicks?

Erika Wasserman:

They're about your ex-mother-in-laws three years ago owed you money. You know, it's the emotional piece that it's about. Um it's rarely about the actual $50 or $500 or $5,000. Because when we look at a dollar bill, which is rare to find these days, right? Everybody has credit cards, but if you pull out a dollar bill or a $10 bill, it's a thing. It's a noun. It's like my pen on my desk. But yet that money carries energy and emotions. So if you gave that $50 to your, let's say, best friend who was going through some deep stuff, right? And you bought her flowers. I'm looking at flowers on my desk, right? You bought her flowers with that $50, it might feel good. If you had to spend that same $50 to maybe get a nail out of your tire, it might not feel as good, right? Like money has energy because the emotion's tied to it. But we don't ever stop and pause and think, oh, that made me feel good. I want to do that again. No, that didn't make me feel good. I'm not spending my money where my values align. And that's what I work with clients a lot on is identifying where do your values align with your spending? And if they don't, how do we shift them?

Dr. Brandy Baxter:

Erica, that's good that you connect with money and values and the emotion that we often attach. And so sometimes families, you talked about your family, but there are also other money narratives that happen at a young age and that can be ingrained. And one of those is money shame. What are some steps that you can share with our audience about breaking the cycle of money shame and creating a healthier relationship with their money?

Erika Wasserman:

Yes. Money shame. I work with people of ultra net worth wealth, right? And I also work with the everyday person. The one thing that's in common between both of those types of people is they've all made money mistakes. And you know what happens when you make a mistake and you don't have anybody to talk to about it or anywhere to release it or to let it go? That's where the shame builds. That's where the messaging of what we tell ourselves, oh, I'm just not good with money. I'll always be broke, I'll never make a million-dollar business, right? This is where the shame grows because you're afraid to share it with somebody. So the first thing that I would say is release that shame. We've all made money mistakes. Everyone that you've ever come in contact with has made a money mistake. It's what you learn from it, just like any other mistakes that you've made in your life. So find somebody that you can confide in, that you can have a conversation with, that you write it down, dear money, write a letter, but let that shame go and move on from it. You where you are today, you're only getting better at what you're doing today. So until you release that shame and say, this is a relationship I want to work on, this is an area I want to grow and put your money where your mouth is, which is the keynote that I'm going to be doing, put your money where your mouth is. That's where growth starts happening. When you start shifting how you talk to yourself about money, when the shame goes down and your confidence goes up.

Rachael DeLeon:

That's so good. And, you know, I think the key to breaking down that shame, not only for yourself, but to give others kind of open permission to do the same is your right. It's opening your mouth and speaking about it. Because oftentimes when we tell someone about our own history with money or feelings around money, you find that we're not so alone. That, you know, there's a lot of probably narratives that you share with others. It's just always been so taboo.

Erika Wasserman:

Yeah. So in my book, Conversations with Your Financial Therapist, I created a five-step process that any financial coach can use with their clients, also with themselves, when you're having a financial conversation and it uses the word money. And the why on the money, we're gonna jump right there because you just you just hit it on the head, was saying yes to compassion. So the other person that might be sharing something with you, it might be an elder parent, right? All of a sudden, fine, they're in the hospital, you know, something's happened where they have to share some financial information with you and have saying yes to compassion for that person. And by the way, for yourself also. So build in ways to be compassionate to yourself and to others because these conversations are not natural for most people.

Rachael DeLeon:

Yeah, I do. I think many people struggle to have money conversations, whether it's with our partner or, like you said, aging parents. I think that can be almost the most nuanced money conversation because do you feel like you're flipping the script a little bit? But also with our kids, you know, that's something intentionally. How do I I think about that very often? How do I use opportunities to really teach around money and to be honest around money and not make it taboo in our house? I'm curious, what are some practical scripts or maybe phrases that people can use to approach these kinds of situations?

Erika Wasserman:

Yeah, it all varies depending on the situation. But let's go back to the elderly parent who doesn't want to talk about estate planning. And for those of you that don't know, if you don't have a will, estate planning, it goes to probate. What happens when you go to probate? The government gets to decide things. And so that person's legacy doesn't always live up to what it's was or what they wanted it to be because the end of life was not set up. Now, oftentimes when I talk to clients and they say, Oh my God, will estate? That means I'm dying. No, it means you're preparing. You know, we all die. But sometimes it's a tough conversation for people to approach. So the way I generally say is storytelling. Hey, listen, Jessica's mom just passed away, and wow, you know, things were not in place and she had to go digging through drawers and make assumptions, and they're spending so much money on attorneys. You know, what could we do so we're not in that situation? Can I make a phone call for us to go meet with an estate planner? And all of a sudden you use that personal experience to create that conversation. Another way is if you're having conversations with people, think about, which is in a money mindset method, is make the conversation comfortable, whether it's your boss, whether it's your client, whether it's your partner. Was it in the car driving side to side, right? No eye contact needed, or was it over coffee and Sunday morning on the phone or in person? So think about setting yourself up for success that way as well.

Rachael DeLeon:

It's so funny. I just had a conversation this morning about how having tough conversations with kids sometimes is easier in the car because they open up more because they don't have to look at you.

Erika Wasserman:

And that's just also not with kids. It's funny, I have a friend, I have three teenage daughters now, they're all in high school. But we've spent hours and hours just talking. And so when it comes to the harder conversations, because we've put the work in on the smaller conversations, they're easier. They're not comfortable, but they're easier. And the same with money. So start with some of the easier conversations. Like I'm working on say taxes, or I'm working on, you know, if you just got a new job, I'm putting money aside for 401k. Any tips or hints of what I should do? And all of a sudden you're starting open dialogue between you and the other person.

Dr. Brandy Baxter:

Erica, I love that the title of your talk for symposium is put your money where your mouth is. But thinking about your bio, I recall reading a line that says, You are one of 100 certified financial therapists. And that sounds like a big deal. Tell our audience a little bit about what it means to be a certified financial therapist and really what made that the line of work for you to specialize in.

Erika Wasserman:

It's a new field. It's been around for about 10 years or so. And I'm certified through the Financial Therapy Association, which has, like I said, roughly 100 certified today. I have a graduate certificate from Kansas State University in financial therapy. And there's a few programs: University of Georgia, Texas Tech, University of Kentucky, Golden Gate that are expanding this field. So yeah, it's super fun for me to be on the cusp of this growing and needed field for the emotional side of money. And the way I do financial therapy is a four-step process. Think about a circle. And it starts with awareness. One is you have a relationship with money. Most of us are on autopilot that we're not even aware how it's impacting us. So first is awareness, and then we go into assessment. Let's start assessing your past, your present, what habits are working, what's not working. Then we shift into actions to take, and then we go into a reassessment after that. And then complete the circle because everything in life keeps changing. And so your life shifts, and so will your relationship with money. Who you are at 24 is very different than who you are at 42. So having that awareness and assessment and actions and then reassessment is so important. It's just like going to the doctor to check in. It's the same thing with your relationship with money. Pop in, see how you're doing, take a pulse, even within your body. In a minute, right now, if you're not driving, close your eyes, ground your feet, take a deep breath in. What does it feel like with your relationship with money? Calm and collective, exciting, nervous and scary. Where does it show up? Your chest, your head. And when you start tuning into these things, you'll start noticing it more when you're at the checkout counter or when you're paying bills. And that's the awareness part that will help you grow your relationship.

Rachael DeLeon:

Erica, a lot of our listeners work in the personal finance space. They're financial counselors, financial coaches, educators, planners. And you talk a lot about money stories. So for our listeners who are working with people each and every day, why is it important for professionals to also be in touch with their own money story? And how does embracing that money story and understanding that money story impact the way they might guide a client or a group or a community?

Erika Wasserman:

Yes, it's so important to understand your money story because how you show up for yourself and others is important. And without us realizing it, we have biases. And sometimes you'll notice you'll you'll connect better with one client over another because they have similar stories. You've been there before. And the ones that you don't connect with right away is because maybe you don't relate as well. So having an opportunity to understand your money story and to pull yourself back as a practitioner, as the coach, versus as the person that's in it, if that makes sense. So I'll give you an example. It's not necessarily with money stories, but it's with money habits. There are two different people that I work with. One are how people. How am I gonna get this done? How am I gonna afford this? How are we gonna get there? Right. And then I work with other clients that are the big wow clients. Wow, I want to buy a home. Wow, I want to, you know, rent it, buy a yacht and live on it for retirement. Right. Big ideas. But you can't get those people to come back and do fill out the spreadsheet or the paperwork, right? You've seen those. And the how people are so happy to fill out the paperwork. And, you know, they show up for the meeting on time. And so it goes back and forth. I by identifying which one you are, you'll be able to prepare better for the client sitting across from you. So if you're sitting across from a person that's how am I gonna get this done? Very detailed oriented, you'll need to tap into your wow person. What big ideas can you bring to them? How can you get them to grow in their thoughts? And for your wow person, you your job is to be the how. How are you gonna get this done? What steps can we take that you'll actually do, right? One or two things, you know, slow it down a little bit. So seeing who's across from you and adjusting your style is gonna help you have more success with the client sitting across the table from you.

Dr. Brandy Baxter:

That was so awesome. Thank you, Erica, for sharing that. I love the concept of the how and the wow people, because I know we have all seen clients like that showing up. One of the things that we like to do, Erica, uh, Rachel and I, is ask our guests to share their two cents. So we are gathering this proverbial knowledge bank, and we'd love for our podcast guests to share their two cents to add to the bank. So as you think about the body of work that you're doing and your experiences, what is something that you would want to share with our audience that they could kind of hang on to? What would be your two cents?

Erika Wasserman:

My two cents is start the conversation. Just start it. If you don't know how, we have Chat GPT. Get a get a prompt, right? I mean, you can use the cards or the books, but the longer you put off the conversation, it's like a toothache. What starts off as a toothache ends up in a root canal. More expensive, more painful, and it lasts longer for you, right? All the pain and agony. The same as with a financial conversation. So start the conversation. It you could stumble through it. That's okay. You know, but by starting it, you at least have a direction to go towards. And that's the goal here is to start moving you in a positive direction.

Rachael DeLeon:

I love that, Erica. Thank you so much for digging into some of these conversations today. And we are thrilled to be able to see you in person in just a week from now at the AFCPE symposium. So for those who will be at the event, Erica will have a table there. She'll be sharing her new book, sharing all of the wisdom that she shared today and more. But Erica, for those who aren't able to join us this year, what is the best way to connect with you?

Erika Wasserman:

Best way is on my website, your financial therapist.com, or on Instagram, also your financial therapist. So I'd love to hear from you. I can't wait to meet everybody. I get so excited just to sit and talk. So make sure you stop by my booth. Like you mentioned, I'll have my books and the cards. I'll do a book signing and can't wait to share the excitement with everybody at the symposium.

Dr. Brandy Baxter:

Rachel, this was such a good chat today with Erica. I love the way that she encourages us to just start the conversation, no matter how awkward it may feel, because that's really where we're going to learn the most, as well as tackle some of the things that hold us back and make us feel like we have shame around our money. I am so excited about her talk at symposium, put your money where your mouth is, as well as looking forward to getting the signed copy of her book.

Rachael DeLeon:

As many of these keynote conversations do, it makes me even more excited for what's coming in the week ahead. The one phrase I wrote down from this conversation today was yes to compassion. And I think that phrase works with how we, you know, have empathetic conversations with clients, but it also works for ourselves. And so I think, you know, when we look at our relationship with money, you know, even personal finance experts have complicated relationships with money. It's it's human. And so having yes to compassion for ourselves and for others is such an important part of the journey.

Dr. Brandy Baxter:

And I hope this episode gives our listeners a sneak peek at what her keynote is going to be about. Erica is funny, she's engaging, but she knows her stuff. So I'm super looking forward to it. And those of you are listening now, you're in for a treat at Symposium. And if you're unable to join us live, make sure you sign up and get the virtual copy so that you can enjoy all of our fantastic keynotes as well as the breakout sessions.

Rachael DeLeon:

The opinions of our podcast guests are their own, which means that their stories, views, or lived experiences may differ from yours or mine. However, the one thing you will always find on this show is a common thread. Our guests are about helping people with their money to improve their lives. And they believe in upholding high standards for the clients and the communities that they serve. We encourage you to tune in to Real Money Real Experts with open curiosity. Why? Because it's oftentimes in the conversations where viewpoints or stories differ from our own that we learn the most.