Rhonda Noordyk, founded The Women's Financial Wellness Center in 2014. Her mission is to help reduce financial vulnerability for women going through divorce.
In this episode, Rhonda talks to us about the challenges women face when going through divorce, the financial considerations, and the importance of having a support team to provide legal, financial, and emotional support.
As an advocate for women, Rhonda believes that knowledge plus experience equals confidence, and she understands the value of trauma-informed care. This episode provides great insights and resources to help you or your clients navigate divorce.
Show Notes:
2:06 Rhonda's journey into the divorce space
4:29 Building her own business
10:50 Her experience with divorce and founding the women's center
14:50 The big challenges for women
20:19 Lack of confidence around finances
27:49 Best methods for women when they're going through a divorce
37:57 Rhonda's final 2 cents
Show Note Links:
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Here are a few places to start: Become a Member, Sign up for an Essentials Course, or Get AFC Certified today!
Want to support the podcast? We love partnering with organizations that share our mission and values. Download our media kit.
Rhonda Noordyk, founded The Women's Financial Wellness Center in 2014. Her mission is to help reduce financial vulnerability for women going through divorce.
In this episode, Rhonda talks to us about the challenges women face when going through divorce, the financial considerations, and the importance of having a support team to provide legal, financial, and emotional support.
As an advocate for women, Rhonda believes that knowledge plus experience equals confidence, and she understands the value of trauma-informed care. This episode provides great insights and resources to help you or your clients navigate divorce.
Show Notes:
2:06 Rhonda's journey into the divorce space
4:29 Building her own business
10:50 Her experience with divorce and founding the women's center
14:50 The big challenges for women
20:19 Lack of confidence around finances
27:49 Best methods for women when they're going through a divorce
37:57 Rhonda's final 2 cents
Show Note Links:
Want to get involved with AFCPE®?
Here are a few places to start: Become a Member, Sign up for an Essentials Course, or Get AFC Certified today!
Want to support the podcast? We love partnering with organizations that share our mission and values. Download our media kit.
Today's episode is brought to you by Beyond Finance. Beyond Finance is on a mission to help everyday Americans escape the endless cycle of crippling debt and step into a brighter future through compassionate individualized care. They work with clients who have unsustainable debt levels, negotiating with their creditors to reduce their balances to reasonable amounts so that they can reset the relationship with the financial system. The Beyond Finance team is hiring accredited financial counselors to provide clients with one-on-one virtual financial counseling sessions in the areas of budgeting, credit building, and creating a values-driven action plan. Positions are remote, offer flexible schedules and require an A F C . You'll also receive training unique to areas of debt resolution and financial therapy. If you want to learn more, visit career center.ape.org or find the direct link in our show notes. Welcome to Real Money Real Experts, a podcast where leading financial counseling and coaching experts share their stories, their challenges, and their advice for helping people manage money and the real world. I'm your host, Rachel Deleon, executive Director of the Association for Financial Counseling and Planning Education for A F C P E.
Speaker 2:And I'm your co-host, Dr. Mary Bell Carlson , an accredited financial counselor, or a F c and the President of Financial Behavior Keynote Group. Every episode we're taking a deep dive in the topics that personal finance professionals care about, helping clients, building community, and your professional growth.
Speaker 1:Today's guest, Rhonda Nordyke, founded the Women's Financial Wellness Center in 2014. Her mission is to help reduce financial vulnerability for women going through divorce. She has impacted thousands of women through her signature coaching and consulting process, as well as her podcast called Divorce Conversations for Women. Rhonda, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Hey, thank you so much for having me,
Speaker 2:Rhonda. I'm so excited to hear about your background and a little more about yourself and how your journey came into this space. Could you tell us a little bit?
Speaker 3:Back in 2014, I was sitting in my office, which I say, you know, I was in a , in an executive office overlooking the parking lot. So I had a really great view <laugh>, lots of time to kind of ponder, you know, what did I want my, my business and my life to look like five years from that time. And, you know, anybody who's considering making a change in how they're doing things or to whom they're doing them with, that's always a scary question to ask ourselves. Right? And what I found myself kind of contemplating and trying to figure out is, you know, where do I go from here? How do I reach more people? How do I continue to move in the direction of my passion, which was helping women navigate through the financial aspects and really become empowered? And it was, those kinds of questions led me to actually leave the financial industry in 2014 and open the Women's Financial Wellness Center. And one of the things I will often say is, you know, this small town girl, right? I left a larger firm with, you know, a business plan. I had rented an office and I had a vision. And really, you know, I was like, okay, I'm packing up my stuff and, you know, marching down and, and you know, opening my new office. And it was exciting. And I certainly had some anxiety around that as well. Uh , I walked away from, you know, 12 years of building my business and essentially left to build something else. Uh , I will say haven't looked back. I doing today, not only what I hoped I would be doing when I left nine years ago, but I'm doing more than I ever thought was possible. And it's been quite the ride. I mean, I, I love the fact that I get to be an influencer in the divorce space. I love the fact that I get to speak into people's lives and give them encouragement. I just had a call today with a, with a client who said, Rhonda, you're the first person who has told me that you know, what I'm asking for is not unreasonable and is actually hearing what I'm saying and is giving me some strategies to navigate through. And she's, she's further along in the process. I'm actually just kind of coming in in the 11th hour to help her with the negotiation aspect of her divorce process and give her some strategies. And that's what for me, this is all about. Wow,
Speaker 2:That is very cool to go from what you've experienced into creating your own. And I really wanna hone in for a minute on, you've built your own business in actually a pretty short amount of time. And the fact that you mentioned that you left the golden handcuffs, right? I think that there's a lot of people out there that want to be like you or somewhere on that path, like you were. Talk to me a little bit more about becoming your own business owner and becoming an entrepreneur. What was that experience like for you?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, I think that there's some of us who have been born with the E gene , I have always had an entrepreneurial spirit. So for me, I'm not afraid to take risks. I mean, not that I'm always like that there isn't anxiety or apprehension, but for me, I evaluate my options and then I move forward. And that's been something that's been very helpful for me. I know that when I was in the financial industry, you know, again, that industry, this was only nine years ago and I'm sure it hasn't changed to that much in , in this period of time, was still pretty male dominated . I had to learn a lot of things, assertive communication and boundaries and, you know, stuff that wasn't directly related to the finances. And I got, how, how would I say this? I had people who felt intimidated by my success that they ended up, you know, kind of undermining things that I would say or do. And so when I left two years into me leaving and, and building, you know, this business, I actually ended up purchasing an office. And the way that that works more common, probably in Florida and some other states more so than it is in Wisconsin where I'm based, was I was able to purchase a con office condo basically. And I went through that process. I met with the broker, I met with the banker, I met with, you know, all of the people that I needed. But I didn't tell anybody in my circle that I was going to do that because I wanted to be able to show up in a way that was just, I'm seeking information. The guy who was selling the office space was a real estate broker. They didn't have an outside broker that was working on that real estate deal. So I ended up working with him directly and having to negotiate the terms of that agreement and all this other kind of stuff. And I remember a real pivotal moment for me, which was I had put in an offer on the space and uh , he came back and he said, Rhonda, I'm totally offended by your offer. And I said, well, you're in real estate and you've been doing this for 30 years. You know the drill. Like, if you don't like my offer, then counter in writing and then let's move on. And it was from that point forward that he was respectful of me and thought , you know, there's some of those things that I've gone through in my life that have really helped me help the women that I'm working with to say, listen, you can negotiate. You can be assertive when you need to in these types of situations. You don't have to be bullied by the court system or the attorneys or the people that you're working with or, you know, divorce space is so much, there's so much that goes on behind the scenes that is very unsettling to me. And the way that people are treated is just not okay. So, you know, I've really been able to lean into some of those experiences to encourage people to say, listen, it's possible. You know, I, looking back, I'm like, oh my gosh, I did that real estate deal pretty much on my own as far as making the decisions and the negotiating. And I got done, you know, doing that. And we were at the closing table and the banker said to me, Rhonda, this good deal. Like, you know, what that meant to me was I did a good job navigating through that. And I just asked questions like, okay, tell me more about that. Why do you need that information? You know, why do you need that? Tell me about this, huh, that's interesting. Can you help me understand? And I, people were so excited and grateful to actually share their wisdom. 'cause I think it made them feel good. Like they knew more than I did in this situation, and I was relying on their expertise. But I was, I was asking questions 'cause I wanted to understand the process. And then about three years later, I got a really, really good deal as far as interest rates. We had a 30 year fix on a commercial loan, which was unheard of. And I thought I was gonna be holding it for a long time. I also had two equity partners. I had, I needed a little bit more money for the down payment at that time to purchase it. And so I went to a couple people and said, Hey, would you like to be an equity partner? And I had two people that said yes. So they invested money into that space. Well then about three years later, I felt like it was time to sell it. My business model was shifting. I didn't need as , didn't need a 4,000 square office space with a conference room and a stage. Just didn't need that anymore. Right. So I , uh, you know, wanted to lease a smaller space and have more ability to be flexible on just, you know, the , the flexibility was really important for where I was headed. So we ended up putting the, the space on the market and it took about a year to sell, but right about the time that Covid was hitting, building, my office actually sold. And it was amazing to me. And I get emotional actually thinking about it because the two women that believed in me and that , that invested in that property, once it sold, I was able to deliver to them a check that helped them sustain their businesses through covid . And that was just like so awesome to me. So I put myself in those kinds of situations so that I can help tell my clients it's fine <laugh> , it's possible. Yeah . You know, to do some of these things as they're moving forward. And, and now today that was, we sold that office three years ago, and since that time then I have a , you know, another least office space. I've got the flexibility to, you know, work there. Sometimes I work at home, sometimes , you know, I just, I can work on the road, you know, whatever. And so, yeah, that's kind of where we're at over the last nine years. It's been quite the ride. But I will say that if, you know, for anybody who is thinking about, you know, kind of venturing and, and you know, going down the entrepreneurial path or starting their own business, one thing that was really, really important for me and I am very grateful for is I sought people, sought out people who could be in my inner circle. I needed people that I could be honest and transparent with, and I trusted them to give good guidance and direction. And , uh, that was invaluable.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you shared that story. And I love how you model the behavior and the things that you're teaching women, even through the financial wellness center, that you're modeling those in your own life. And I think so many women, myself included, don't often ask for what we need. And so being an advocate for yourself is, is so critical. So thank you for sharing that. I wanna ask a question, and if this is not appropriate, you can, you can say otherwise, but I'm curious, a lot of times when people make a shift into starting their own business or niching down, they had personal experience in that space. And so I'm curious what led you into finding the women's financial wellness center and sort of your experience with divorce in your life and, and what inspired you to give back in that way?
Speaker 3:You know, that is a common question that I often get as I'm doing, you know, podcast interviews or TV interviews or radio interviews or whatever mm-hmm . <affirmative> . So I think the big question, right, a lot of times is, Rhonda, have you gone through divorce? And the answer to that is no. Um, I have been coming up next year on my 25th anniversary. Wow. You know, so here's, after doing a lot of soul searching, right? It was like, what is it about helping women that are in these really tough spots that I feel like I gravitate toward? What is it about that situation? And after doing some soul searching and journaling and trying to figure out what that is, reality of it is , it came down to two things. One is my childhood in a sense of, I was, you know, my dad was an alcoholic. I was at the time , and you know, now we know, right? There was a lot of gaslighting, there was a lot of emotional, a little bit of physical abuse, that kind of stuff that was going on. And you know, that was in the, you know, eighties and nineties, right? And nobody was really talking about that stuff. Um, so there was an emotional connection to me, and I really have always been, even from a young kid of wanting justice, right? There was this aspect of like, I don't like people seeing people being taken advantage of. The ethical and the integrity piece of that stuff just always bothered me. And so that was one thing to understand from an emotional perspective, what women are experiencing when, you know, they don't feel like they have control of the finances or they feel like their spouse is, you know, emotionally abusing them or whatever. So that was the first thing. And then the second thing was when I was , uh, in the financial industry, there was a level of , uh, emotional abuse that was happening to me. And my colleague saw it. Nobody really knew what to do with it. I find , found myself driving home every single day crying and it was awful. <laugh>. It was awful. And , um, so I have experienced a lot of those things. And I also remember being the person where I was like, I wanna be over there. Like, I wanna be the person that can show up to these tough conversations and not start crying. I wanna be the person that can show up and set boundaries. I wanna be the person that can negotiate and move the needle toward a resolution. And thankfully, I'm that person today. I have very strong boundaries. I'm a very confident communicator and I wanna instill that for my clients. And so that's really, I think, been more on the emotional journey that helps me really connect with my clients. I mean, most of the time I'm so in tune with what they need that most of the time they feel like I've gone through divorce. And I guess I could kind of say like, to some degree, I'm every day going through somebody's divorce. You know what I mean? Like it's, yeah , it's a lot <laugh>, but it's really my life's passion, my life's work. And I have always said, you know, if I get to the point where , um, I don't have the passion that I don't wake up, you know, 99% of the time wanting to do this work, then it's time for me to either retire really early or find something else to do. Thank you for your honesty, by
Speaker 2:The way. I think that that is one of the things with women is we don't talk about these things and we keep them hidden. And that was a big part of the Me Too movement is just being able to open up about these things. So I would love to hear from your perspective, beyond our typical divorce, what are some of these big challenges for women and what are some solutions to navigate through these difficult times?
Speaker 3:I'm grateful that you're asking this question because I think one of the biggest challenges as people are going through divorce is the trauma component. And I did an interview, my podcast probably like four years ago with a therapist who, in my opinion is one of the best in the country in helping deal with hidden abuse and empowering women to leave. And so I interviewed her and she said, you know, Rhonda, for a lot of women that are going through divorce or divorce in general, can often be equated to P T S D that, you know, the people that are serving in the military experience. And I thought, that is really bad <laugh> like that. It just put a whole new perspective on that. And I think, you know, while over the years we've had more of an awareness around the trauma, unfortunately the divorce process as a whole, and many of the people that are working in this space don't necessarily understand the trauma component. And so what ends up happening is they end up dismissing concerns that clients share with them or saying, oh yeah, well we deal with, you know, people who have, you know, difficult situations, narcissistic tendencies all the time, you know? Yeah, we do it all the time. But there's a difference between saying, yeah, I work with in this space all the time and I'm trauma informed and I'm working to make sure that you feel like you've got a safe place. There's no dumb question. You can ask me, you know, questions more than once. And I'm not gonna say, well, I already told you this, you know, and so it's a matter of, again, having that awareness that the trauma exists and the divorce industry. And again, I know that, you know, there's people that are like, Rhonda , I can't believe you're saying this out loud, but it's just, it's the truth. And that is that there's a lot that happens in divorce behind the scenes that's very different than either A, what people think is going to happen, or b, what actually happens, right? And so people are like, well, yeah, I mean you , if you live in a marital property state, it's, you know, 50 50. Well, okay, it's a starting spot, right? Or oh, you live in an equitable distribution state and everything, you know, all this stuff . There's so many assumptions that people have that ends , uh, hindering, I think their movement forward in a sense of, well, Rhonda, it doesn't, the court system exist to be able to make sure that, you know, justice is served. Okay. Well, yes, and not really <laugh>, you know, the amount of abuse that happens from my clients have experienced from attorneys, from guardian ad litems who are supposed to be there to advocate for the children to, you know, social work . I mean, the amount of of abuse that's happening from the divorce professionals is astounding to me. And one of the things that we're gonna be doing that I'm committing to doing, kicking off for 2024, is to make sure that anybody, our key recommended alliances, the other professionals that we work with, like forensic accountants and the business valuation experts and the attorneys and mediators and stuff like that , um, are trauma informed. And I'm gonna be facilitating a training or hosting a training, I should say on this topic. And partnering with an expert who can take us through, you know, four hours of training , um, you know, to help us become trauma-informed. None of us are obviously gonna leave there. We're not experts in that space. They need to be working with a licensed professional to help them with that. But I think if there's a few, you know, most of the time it's small tweaks, you know, that can be done. I think people, their hearts are usually in the right place, but the tricky part is they maybe just don't know. And so, you know, that awareness I think is gonna be key, but I'm committing to that. I think that's one thing where, you know, since I started the divorce in this space nine years ago, I was the only person that had a center nationwide, a physical location for women that specifically that were going through divorce. And the only thing that was even close to that was in Australia. Well, now there's a lot of people that I, you know, candidly speaking, I I think they see it as a money grab and they're like, oh , this is a great niche and we're gonna get into working with divorced people and, you know, whatever. And their heart's not in the right place, and they don't necessarily understand the scope of what they're taking on. And it's oftentimes a very small percentage of their overall business. And so the amount of exposure that they're having to challenges and opportunities is minimal. The average C D F A does 10 cases a year and working with divorced clients, I'm sure they have other clients in addition to that. But this is all I do. I have, I interact with probably close to a hundred or 150 through our programs and one-on-one, you know, consulting and stuff in a year. So I'm doing over 10 times what everybody else is doing, and this is all I do, you know, so it's really , um, it's just a , it's a lot, right? And I'm, I'm still always learning something new. <laugh> like, when do I get to arrive? Like, no , there's always something else, which is great.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think that's one of the things I really resonate with on your title of your business. It's Women's Financial Wellness Center. It does say, if you meet these criteria, X, Y, Z, right? It's really about the holistic viewpoint and helping them through trauma and troubling times. I know that in some of my personal experiences with friends, money has been a trigger in many of the divorce in the situations that I would look at and say, why the heck are you still with them? And the number one reason I do hear of why they won't leave their abusive spouse is money. Is that what you see as well? That a lot of abuse takes place, but they don't feel like they can leave because of financial reasons or, or what
Speaker 3:Else? I definitely think that that's part of it. I think the other thing is just a overall lack of confidence around the finances. You know, not every case that I work on is their abuse. Sometimes there's just, you know, levels of control or manipulation. And then again, it's hard to define where's that line, right? But a lot of times they will let their spouse, you know, handle it. If they are dealing with the finances, it's usually on the day-to-day stuff. Like they probably have a good idea of where , um, the expenses are, like they're paying the bills, but usually beyond that they, there's not a whole lot of an awareness on, you know, what the big picture is. So ultimately, Prudential did a study, a longitudinal study when I was still in the financial industry. They did one in 2000, and then another one in 2010. And while that might seem like it was, I mean, it literally was over a decade ago, I think that content from my personal day-to-day experience is still very relevant. And the takeaway from that study was that first of all, over the 10 years, not a whole lot had changed, but the key takeaway was , was that it was knowledge plus experience that gave women confidence. And so while they may have certain, you know, may have a little bit of knowledge about the finances, if they don't have the experience, you know, they have a theory, right? It's, it's theory without, you know, actually having the, the experience. If they have the experience without the knowledge, then it's trial and error <laugh>. But you know, when we get the two of them working together, man, it's powerful. And we've been able , I've been able to help accelerate that confidence for women because I understand what they need to be able to have the confidence, what they need to know. I think the divorce base has gotten really busy. And so one of the things that I will often say is, we don't need more information. We don't need more suggestions. We need wisdom. We need wisdom. We need to know what is my next best move? What's the thing that I can be doing that's going to move the needle? And you know, a lot of times it might be gathering your financial documents might mean calling the I R S and getting a transcript of your taxes. It might be downloading the social security statement. You know, those kinds of things are practical, kind of immediate applicable things that people can do to kind of feel like they're taking some action. Because the trends that we're seeing is that women's lifestyle tends to go down 41% post-divorce. And the reason for that is because I think that there's, there's a lack of understanding about the finances, which again, I always say, you know, in most relationships there's usually one person who's taking the lead, it's divide and conquer, right? Many times women will say, well, I, you know, back in the day I balanced my checkbook and I did my own finances before I got married. And then I let it go. And oh , well , my good news is, you know, you can do it. You know that you're capable of doing it, which I believe women are capable of doing it. It's just a matter of, you know, getting to that point, right? So the reason that I believe it goes down 41% is they don't understand the finances. They might not understand what their options mean for them now and in the future, and they're not being heard or they're being bullied into a decision. Uh , I talked to another client this morning and she goes, Rhonda, we went into, was supposed to be, you know, our final kind of mediation and come to resolution. She said, 20 minutes before our time, you know, was concluded after four hours of doing mediation, 20 minutes before the end, they come in and say, here's the offer, take it or leave it. And at that moment you're like, well, do I take it and take substantially less than what I'm probably supposed to be getting because my spouse is being very difficult and bullying, or do I say, I'm not gonna take it, mediation failed, and now I'm gonna have to move on to trial. And that's a really difficult spot to be in because women will say, well, I don't wanna go to trial. Well, nobody wants to go to trial. Two to 5% of cases go to trial. But I think a lot of the reason that that stat's low is because women end up agreeing to those moments where they're being bullied. You know? And so there's, there's a lot that goes into that. But I think at the end of the day, I think there's a couple things that people can keep in mind. And that is that first of all, you know, and I work across the country and I even have some international clients. So I see, you know, state by state how things kind of unfold. I, I very intentional about working with clients that either have attorneys or mediators are going to be finding one, which a lot of times will actually help them find legal counsel . But each state's different on how they approach financial matters. So that's the first thing. The second thing is I want people to remember that everything's negotiable. I don't care what state they live in, it is not black and white people sometimes like to oversimplify , um, particularly those of us who live in marital property states , oh, it's 50 50, it's easy. We're just gonna split everything down the middle, sell the house, split the proceeds, and move on. It's not quite that simple. And there's a lot of details that I think when we approach it that way, get overlooked. But again, I believe it's those kinds of things that are really kind of tying into that, that statistic that really the purpose of my company exists to change the stats. And we're doing that in the nine years that I've been working with clients, I have been able to move, now this is the stuff that I can count $20 million into the hands of women that literally would've otherwise been left on the table because they either didn't know what questions to be asking or felt bullied into a final decision. That's huge, right? Because again, what does that mean? That means that that money that women were essentially entitled to, right, has now been able to impact their life. They've been able to continue to move forward and not just pay their bills and wonder where the next paycheck's coming from, but be able to thrive after divorce. They've been able to invest in causes and they've been able to purchase their own home. You know, there's just, there's a lot, been a lot that goes into that. And that's really been important. And then the third thing that I would say that people should keep in mind is that the reality of what happens , um, in divorce is very different than typically from what people Google. And so making sure that they've got the right team of people. And I always say like the trifecta, right? Like you need legal, obviously legal expert, emotional, and then financial. And you know, so once people have kind of those three areas covered, it's kind of like their essential team. And then if they need additional things like a forensic accountant or a private investigator or a business valuation expert, those would be considered kind of add-on team members if it makes sense for their situation. But, you know, I think all those things really play into, you know, the outcome of final settlement and, and what that looks like, particularly for women.
Speaker 1:Rhonda, you talked a little bit about the team to have in place when you're going through a divorce. I'm curious, I know every divorce and the women going through it are very unique. Are there still some best practice financial considerations or methods that you recommend for women when they're going through a divorce?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I would say, you know, from a, from a high level, there's a couple things. And again, it's the initial kind of suggestions. The intention is for them to be very practical, right? I know that it's hard to, to quantify or sometimes even articulate how people are feeling. But I would say, you know, as you're interviewing team members, trust your gut on that. If you leave there and you're like, I'm not sure everybody in the in the community says this person is like, you know, an excellent attorney and bulldog or whatever they wanna say, right? Um , but I'm just feeling unsettled about it, then that is an opportunity for pause , um, for you to either go back and ask additional questions or interview additional attorneys or, you know, whatever. So I think, you know, I think that's the first thing is just really kind of leaning into that. The other thing is, so we have, I have, I love acronyms. I am like always like brainstorming acronyms 'cause <laugh> , I just love them . <laugh> . I think it's so much easier for us to, you know, remember information and maybe that's my years in higher education where I was teaching entrepreneurs. I'm like, okay, we're gonna come up with some me acronyms, but there's one that I wanna share. And that is that if people are going through this process and they're like, okay, one of the very first things that people do as they're starting the process is they need to start gathering and organizing documents. And in theory, both parties are supposed to come to the table with a document that's completed that shows their assets and liabilities. Well, unfortunately, people avoid doing that. And they will do what I call the DAM method, which is they will dis , they will dodge the disclosure. So they'll dodge filling out the paperwork, they will avoid getting assets valued. So that could be a business, a classic car, ATVs, boats, you know, suddenly now that's, oh, that's not worth anything. Well, okay, we can get, there's third parties that we can, you know, engage their services. And part of what I do is go out into the marketplace and try to find the best of the best that do that. I've got a classic cart expert who works across the country, you know, business valuation, all that kind of stuff, the assets, having values of those from an expert third party can be really helpful. Now, not everybody needs that, but if they do, I'm like, well, let's let , let's get a quote and see how much it is before we say, well, you don't wanna do that, it's not worth it. Right? And then the m is misrepresenting information. So either they'll give bits and pieces, they won't give the whole story, they'll leave out information. And so I think the thing that I would say is, you know, identify , um, if you see that happening for a client, right? Identify if you're like, I think they're engaging in the DAM method, like, you know, one of my programs is called Bridge. So we were playing on that a little bit. Like, Hey, you know, don't engage in the dam method, pick the bridge, right? And so, you know, that, that whole analogy I think is really helpful for people. And if you notice that, you know, your clients are going through that, like that's exactly what they're doing. I heard Rhonda say that, like, that's, that is a, an opportunity I think, to share with your clients. Listen, you know, there are some other ways to be able to get that information. And in , in my programs I talk about what exactly does that look like if your attorney's not responding, you know, or you don't feel like you're getting the information that you need to make a good decision and you're not getting full transparency. There's other things that can be done. And so I'm then able to kind of share with my clients, okay, here's the the things that I need you to go back and ask the attorney for. Um , or here's, you know, another option of how we might be able to get that information. And so, you know, that's really helpful. The other practical thing, and I know I just kind of alluded to this real briefly, is again , um, people that are client facing certainly can help their clients, you know, go onto the social security website and get their statements or reach out to the I r s and get the transcripts if they don't have access to the actual tax return. Um, and any other financial documents, I think, you know, there's certainly an opportunity , um, to kind of walk people through that process. I, I'm not able to necessarily do that one-on-one with clients, but I do point them in the right direction of where to look for those things. And then, you know, usually they can go out and gather that information, but if they needed additional support, I think having, you know, people that can literally, Hey, let's sit down at the computer and pull it up. Let's get that statement, you know, headed your direction or whatever. That certainly would be helpful. And then lastly, other practical is, you know, connecting them with people who can help them, connecting them with the right resources. And I another acronym, which is, you know, how do we determine who we're working? Because I think a lot of times people are grateful to give names of people, but they maybe haven't had a conversation with them . Like, well, there's this one attorney that, you know, one of my other clients was using, I'll give them their name and whatever. And that's not necessarily always that helpful if, if it's really not a good fit for their, you know, specific situation . So I always say connects with people who help them and meet the C I A test, which is they've got excellent communication. One of the biggest challenges that I hear from women that reach out is, Rhonda, I don't know what's going on. In my case, we filed nine months ago, there's been no movement. I don't know where to go. I don't even know what questions to be asking. Can you help me? So that certainly is, you know, one of the biggest frustrations that people have, I think as part of this process. Um, the second thing, so the I is integrity , um, you know, working again with team that really is transparent and honest about their billing and about, you know, next steps and just integrity piece is very important. And lastly, the A is advocacy. I really feel like people need people on their team who can advocate for them. This is, you know, that this isn't just a job, this isn't just a, you know, and I , like I said, I get to the point where this is no longer, you know, a passion and I don't enjoy this anymore, then it's, you know, time to go a different direction. But I think so many people are like, oh, I'm just gonna stick it out. And in the meantime, they're dropping the ball, they're not responding to clients, they're not, you know, actively doing the things that they need to do. And a quick example of that was, I had a woman reach out. She was actually a friend of one of my previous clients. And , um, by the time she kind of asked for help, we were, we were definitely in the 11th hour, but she reached out to her friend. She's like, listen, Kim, I, I'm , I don't even know where to go. And she's like, you need to reach out to Rhonda. So she gives her my name and she reaches out. Well, long story short, she was, this gal was two weeks away from a default divorce hearing. And basically what that means is , uh, if, if there was stuff that wasn't done and they walk into the courtroom for their final court hearing, two weeks from that date, the judge like divorced , nothing had been done. The properties had not been appraised. The subpoenas, meaning that attorney had drafted up subpoenas to send directly to the companies for, like, they , we can do that for like banks or, or retirement accounts and things like that. Like if somebody's not giving the information, the attorneys can reach out and basically say, well, ordering you to give us this information. Well, the statements, the information was drafted and was sitting in her folder and was never sent. And had she not reached out to me, she would've, she would be divorced right now. Um , the, and we would have no values on the property. They would still be fighting about it. So we ended up, I met with her, we did a two hour strategy session, which I don't normally do two hours , but I needed to get caught up. We summarized the assets and liabilities, we talked through some strategies. She said, Rhonda, I've gotten more done in two hours than I did in nine months with my previous attorney. And I said, well, I honestly think you need a new attorney. And she goes, well, do you think it's too late? I said, no, I've got some attorneys that I work with and I think we should reach out to them. So I made a phone call, reached out to one of the attorneys that I've worked on similar situations with, and she was like, yeah, no problem, I'll help her. So she jumped in, took over the case, client fired her previous attorney , um, they bumped back the court date by about six to eight weeks. We have appraisals in motion, subpoenas in motion, getting the information to help my client make a good decision, and we'll get some answers to what the values of these properties are and everything before obviously their next, their next court date will be final. But this is the kind of stuff that, you know, and the whole time this poor, it's like, you know, I'm reaching out to them, I am , they're not calling me back. Or if I ask questions like, oh yeah, we're working on it, we did it, you know, whatever. And she starts to think, my gosh, am I asking too much? Am I asking the wrong questions? No, none of that. You know, you know, those are the kinds of things that, and again, I'm not, I mean, I don't always have the bandwidth when somebody calls in the 11th hour, like, Hey, you know, I have trial tomorrow, can you help me? Like, no, I'm probably not gonna be able to do anything between now and tomorrow. Like, I need at least a , probably a four <laugh> in most cases. I need at least a , you know, at least a four week lead time. I mean, in order to do stuff, you know. But those are the kinds of things that really break my heart, like, you know, and really, I guess probably a part of the reason why I always wake up and I'm fueled to do it because never, there's never a shortage of those question, those types of situations and scenarios like I've shared during our time together. I mean, it's, it's, it's pretty astounding , uh, you know, the level of challenge that this process brings for people.
Speaker 2:Well, and it's so needed. I mean, these women need an advocate in their corner and you just give, it's a great example of why even the lawyers not always are on top of this. And so I think it's just fantastic what you're doing and being able to help women in so many ways and empowering them to speak up and to have a voice at the end of each interview, we like to ask our guests 2 cents. If you had one piece of advice to leave with our listeners, what would your 2 cents be?
Speaker 3:Two tips. Okay, so my first one would be essentially a sense of encouragement. And that is that you can do this, you're smart. It's just, remember that formula, it's the knowledge plus the experience that's gonna help increase the confidence. So that would be the first thing, like, you know, it's totally possible and it doesn't happen overnight, right? But it's one step , one decision, one situation at a time that moves you in the direction of being financially confident. And the second thing is, I mean, certainly if there's any way that I can help people can check out my podcasts, you know, divorce Conversations for Women, we do have some, you know, free resources available and stuff like that. And I do offer a complimentary 15 minute call if somebody wants to hop on and have a conversation. So at the end of the day, right, happy, happy to be a resource for people as they're navigating through this and see if I might be able to help them, or I can definitely get them pointed, you know, in the right direction. And I guess the summary of that is they're not alone, right? I understand what they're going through. There's probably nothing they're gonna share with me that I haven't dealt with. And so just happy to help in any way that I can.
Speaker 1:Rhonda, we'll include a lot of the information you shared today in our show notes, but tell our listeners where they can connect with you
Speaker 3:If they are on Instagram. It's my name at Rhonda Nordi and R D Y K, my website wf wc divorce.com . Thanks
Speaker 1:So much, Rhonda. We really appreciate you coming on today . Yeah,
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Thank you so much for the opportunity,
Speaker 2:Rachel. It was so empowering to listen to Rhonda. I really honestly appreciate her sharing her own story and passion, and you can hear it in what she does, that she's really there to help other women through really difficult times. I like how she was so holistic and she's calling it what it is, which is trauma and, and difficult things to get through without minimizing it. So many times, I think when you're in a hard space, you need a friend or a mentor or a partner to be there alongside you and really push through this for you and with you kind of giving you the backup and the help you need. I think the part that resonated the most with me was her when she said, knowledge plus experience equals confidence. And that's the part that I thought if every woman could have that confident partner, right? Just to help them when they're feeling unconfident or lack of knowledge or lack of experience, they just need that other side. So I really appreciate her and her passion to help others and make the world a little better place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Mary, I couldn't agree more, and I really loved that she's building alliances to support women as they're going through trauma and they're going through divorce, and that she's ensuring that everyone that works with her clients is trauma informed. And you know, trauma isn't just those extreme cases. I would argue that every single person going through divorce is experiencing trauma, whether in their past or in the moment. It's a traumatic experience. And so just being really mindful of that and being able to meet people where they are. I also wrote down the comment about knowledge plus experience equals confidence. We always talk about that actually in the A F C program, you know, in order to earn that designation. It's about knowledge and it's about experience. And that's what gives you the confidence to work with clients. And I just love that, you know , she approaches her work and her work with clients by empowering women to stand on their own two feet. So excellent conversation today, and I'm excited to announce too, that she's actually going to be doing an F P A Connect Financial Counseling Community webinar in August. And so we'll put that information in the show notes. And depending on when you're listening to this episode, hopefully you can attend it live or on demand . Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.