This week on Real Money, Real Experts, we're back with Ryan Law, CFP®, AFC®, a recognized expert in client communication, student loans, financial counseling, and behavior change. He recently served as President of AFCPE, and in 2021 Ryan received the AFCPE Distinguished Fellow Award!
In this episode, Ryan takes us through the current state of federal student loans and what to anticipate in the coming months given the recent updates. He also shares a sneak peek of what to expect for his keynote presentation this November and provides practical advice for being change agents in our own lives. Tune in to Ryan's episode for great insights, and secure your ticket to symposium today to catch his full presentation at #AFCPE2022!
Show Notes:
1:40 Sneak peek of Ryan's symposium keynote presentation
9:19 What to know right now for student loans
13:09 When might payments restart?
14:06 What about direct or FFEL loans?
15:06 Why Ryan chose to pursue his AFC®
17:19 His first symposium experience
18:04 What he most looks forward to at #AFCPE2022
19:42 Ryan's final 2 cents
Show Note Links:
Want to get involved with AFCPE®?
Here are a few places to start: Become a Member, Sign up for an Essentials Course, or Get AFC Certified today!
Want to support the podcast? We love partnering with organizations that share our mission and values. Download our media kit.
This week on Real Money, Real Experts, we're back with Ryan Law, CFP®, AFC®, a recognized expert in client communication, student loans, financial counseling, and behavior change. He recently served as President of AFCPE, and in 2021 Ryan received the AFCPE Distinguished Fellow Award!
In this episode, Ryan takes us through the current state of federal student loans and what to anticipate in the coming months given the recent updates. He also shares a sneak peek of what to expect for his keynote presentation this November and provides practical advice for being change agents in our own lives. Tune in to Ryan's episode for great insights, and secure your ticket to symposium today to catch his full presentation at #AFCPE2022!
Show Notes:
1:40 Sneak peek of Ryan's symposium keynote presentation
9:19 What to know right now for student loans
13:09 When might payments restart?
14:06 What about direct or FFEL loans?
15:06 Why Ryan chose to pursue his AFC®
17:19 His first symposium experience
18:04 What he most looks forward to at #AFCPE2022
19:42 Ryan's final 2 cents
Show Note Links:
Want to get involved with AFCPE®?
Here are a few places to start: Become a Member, Sign up for an Essentials Course, or Get AFC Certified today!
Want to support the podcast? We love partnering with organizations that share our mission and values. Download our media kit.
Welcome to real money, real experts, a podcast where leading financial counseling and coaching experts share their stories, their challenges, and their advice for helping people manage money in the real world. I'm your host, Rachel Daon executive director of the association for financial counseling and planning education, or a F C P.
Speaker 2:And I'm your co-host Dr. Mary Bell Carlson, an accredited financial counselor or AFC, and the CEO of Carlson consulting. Every episode, we're taking a deep dive into the topics that personal finance professionals care about helping clients, building community in your professional growth. Ryan law is an award-winning and well known educated speaker and author. He is also the director of the Utah valley university or UVU money success center, where he also teaches in the personal financial planning program. Ryan is a certified financial planner professional and an accredited financial counselor. Ryan is the author of the book, student loan planning and the co-editor of the book financial counseling. Ryan is one of the founders of financial behavior keynote group, and he's the CEO of Ryan law consulting and Ryan law, financial education. Ryan is a recognized expert in client communication, student loans, financial counseling, and behavior change. He recently served as the president of a F C P E and in 2021, he received the a F C P E distinguished fellow award. Ryan lives in Utah with his wife and five kids. Ryan, welcome back to the show. We're so glad to have you.
Speaker 3:Thank you, Mary. Happy to be here.
Speaker 2:So I'm really excited to have you on the show today, especially to give us a sneak peek of your a F C P symposium keynote coming up this November. Let's talk about one of my favorite topics and your favorite topics, behavior change. Can you give us a quick overview of what attendees can expect and why you're talking on this topic?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. So, I mean, I'm gonna give you a little backstory if that's all right, Mary. So for many years, I've studied personal development books. In fact, I read my very first book around personal development, the seven habits of highly effective people when I was probably 14, 15, sometime in there. Wow. And, and ever since then, I've been reading similar books. So if, if you look at my bookshelves, they're full of books, not just about money management, but about time management, exercise, diet relationships, parenting, building a business habit, sleep. I mean, I've got so many books on personal development. It's, you know, as a lot of people do Uhhuh<affirmative>, but despite all of that reading, I realized one day that I was not managing my time very well. I was not getting enough sleep. I hadn't saved as much as I had hoped to. And I, I was really outta shape. So, you know, I looked at all of these books and I'm like, okay, what good are all of these books doing me if I'm not living up to what, what they're talking about? So what I re later realized is is that a lot of these books lacked was practical advice about change and change is really what all of these books and podcasts and everything else that I was listening to was really about, you know, books about sleep are about changing your sleeping patterns, books about exercise and diet that are about changing your diet and, and your exercise pattern. So what I realized is that even though I was reading all of these books, I really didn't understand how change worked in my life. So I decided to really study that topic and, and try to implement and change. So I've, I've read about it a ton. I've, I've written about it and I've come up with a system that's worked really well for me and I, and I'm excited to share my system with those at the symposium.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Behavior change is a tricky one, right? I remember distinctly being on an army base years ago and a Berg kernel telling me, or telling the whole group, actually at this meeting and saying, Hey, I need financial behavior fixed. Like I want these financial problems to go away. Just like, if I have a tank broke, I want the tank fixed. Right? Sure. And I think it's much easier to fix a tank, cuz there's a part, you change it out. If you know what you're doing, behavior change is people related and that's the hardest part. And I think that's really interesting, Ryan, cuz you even said in there, you, even though, as an expert in this field, weren't even changing your own behavior. And I think that's really where it starts is looking at ourselves and saying, what do I need to change in my own life? And then being willing to change. And that isn't an easy process.
Speaker 3:No, no it sure isn't and, and like you said, I think it all of us as financial professionals, I mean we're focused on change, but a lot of times we think about it for our clients, right. We think, okay, our clients need to start saving$50 a month or they need to pay off this credit card debt or they need to check their credit scores or whatever the case may be. But, but what are we doing personally? You know, a lot of us are, are like the cobbler who who's own kids don't have, you know, good shoes<laugh> and so yeah, true. It's important to look at those things and say, okay, how am I doing in these areas and how am I doing not just in financial areas, but how am I doing on my time management and my sleep and all these other areas that we can take a look at and say, okay, if I'm not making changes there, because it relates back to the human factor that you just talked about. So if I'm not making changes and I don't truly understand that process, how can I help my clients to do that?
Speaker 2:And change is hard. I mean, let's be honest, it's not an easy process. So tell us a little bit about how you affect change in your own life.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well let's touch on the change. Why change is hard for just a minute and change truly is a difficult thing to do. And, and I've really, I've come up with a couple of different reasons why change is hard. So one of them is that we're busy. I mean, all of us have full-time jobs and families and you might have church commitments or community commitments and all these other things going on. So that's just, that's part of it is that we are, we're simply busy. So that that's a big one. We also often lack a support system. We try to go about these changes completely on our own. Maybe we mention it to a spouse or a close friend or something, but we really lack a support system as we're going through that change. And then Mary, I you've probably done this as well. I try to go really big when I wanna make a change. Right.<laugh> yeah. So I've been, I've been staying up way too late, grading watching shows whatever. And then I'm like, all right, tomorrow, I'm getting up at five. I'm gonna exercise, you know, for an hour and I'm going to eat healthy all day long. And then, you know, so I try to go really big instead of just implementing small changes and, and that's, that's tough to do so that, that's another reason why change is hard.
Speaker 2:I think it's gonna be hard to talk about change without talking about failure. I mean, you just described my going big exactly to a T that's totally what I do. And of course I fall off the horse the first day cuz I can't sustain it. And so failure is a part of that process. How does failure also play into change?
Speaker 3:You know, I, I think that it's important to be able to look at those failures and say, what do I want different? I mean, I, I talked just a few minutes ago about how, when I was looking at my own life and saying, okay, I'm not getting enough sleep. I'm out of shape. I'm I haven't saved as much as I want to. I'm not managing my time. Well, it was important to look at those things and say, okay, I wanted a difference here. And I want, I want to be able to look at my life and say, okay, I'm actually managing my time a lot better. And I'm in the kind of shape that I want to be in and I'm getting the seven to eight hours of sleep that I should be. So I think that failure is important because you can take those failures and you can learn such important lessons out of those failures. In fact, I, I don't mind when I fail because it allows me to look at those instances and say, okay, what can I really learn? I learn more from my failures than I do my successes as I'm sure, you know, most people do. It's just hard to look at it at the moment and say, okay, this is hard, this hurts. Right. But to be able to look at it, maybe not right away, but a little bit down the road and, and even journaling about it and saying, okay, this is what I learned from this really tough experience. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you wouldn't have those successes without some of the failures because you're right. The most growth comes in those failure moments. And I love how you've talked a lot about how this really applies to you. And I think that's pretty personal to get up on stage and say, Hey, I wasn't in shape. I wasn't doing the things I know I could be doing better. And I think that's really hard as a professional. It's always easier to fix other people, right. That what's the old adage. You have one finger pointing at someone else and you have three fingers pointing back at you. That's right. So we always wanna be fixing other people, but really at the end of the day, it's learning that change within ourselves. Why is that so hard to focus on our own change?
Speaker 3:Well, I think it goes back to what we were just talking about that it's hard and, and it hurts, you know, to, to change and to look at ourselves and say, I am not where I want to be. And, and I'm willing to get up on the stage and be vulnerable and, and share these experiences because, uh, you know, I, I suffer from the, the same things that everybody else does where it's hard. We want to be better. And we want to present this front that like, Hey, I've got everything together. And, and I don't just like everyone else. I, I struggle with things still. I mean, I, you know, last night I think I ended up with six hours of sleep, not the seven eight, but I
Speaker 2:<laugh>,
Speaker 3:It's better, better than I have been in the past. And so, and that's what I can look at is, is say, okay, what is incremental changes that I can make? And, and that I can really improve as I move moving forward in, in all of these different areas.
Speaker 2:We're really looking forward to that. Ryan. I know that another area that you're very well known for is a student loan expert and a lot has been happening in this area lately. Can you give us a brief synopsis of what we need to know right now in the area of student loans?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. So last month we had a major announcement from president Biden and the Biden administration that they were going to be forgiving somewhere between 10 and$20,000 worth of student loan debt. That, that is huge, big news that broke, you know, across the board where, and, and they actually, they broke the student loan website later that day because it, so many people were going on there and saying, okay, how do I get this? What's it about? And so news has been trickling out fairly slowly since that initial release date, I've tried to keep up with it. I try to follow all the, the various announcements that are coming out about it. But the, the basic idea is that if you are single and you make under$125,000 a year, you can have 10 or$20,000 forgiven and we'll get into the difference there. Or if you're married, you can make up to$250,000 a year and still get that forgiveness. So 10,000 should be across the board for anyone who makes below that income level. But if you received even one Pell grant, while you were going to school, then you get the full up to 20,000. There's no refund. So if you owe 18,000, then you get 18,000 forgiven. So that's what we're looking at here is, is a pretty massive amount of student loan forgiveness. That's going to happen sometime before the end of the year.
Speaker 2:And do people have to apply for that forgiveness or does it just automatically happen?
Speaker 3:So some of it will be automatic if people have filled out a FAFSA in the last couple of years, and they've, they've verified their, their income for either 20, 20, or 2021, then they'll just utilize that data. So they should just see forgiveness at some point. However, there will be a, they they've promised a simple form. We'll see what happens when it actually comes out, but it's supposed to be a simple form. It'll probably connect to the IRS where you can just pull in your 20, 20 or 2021 income and, and they'll be able to verify it that way. So I, I would plan on applying for it if you qualify for it, don't don't plan on that just automatically happening. So, so watch the news, watch the, the student loan website, you can sign up for updates and they'll let you know when that form is available and you can fill that out.
Speaker 2:And you've also written about this on your blog@ryanhlaw.com, correct?
Speaker 3:Yes, it is currently my most recent blog post and it it's a pretty long post because I keep adding to it every time there's more news, I'll update it and, and say, okay, this has changed now. And so you can, but yeah, you can go there to Ryan H law.com, just click on that latest blog post. And it will talk all about the changes and who qualifies and who doesn't and different scenarios and, and when it's going to happen and different things like that.
Speaker 2:And let's clarify really quick too. I wanna be real clear. These are for federal student loans, not private loans, is that right? Correct.
Speaker 3:Federal student loans only.
Speaker 2:Okay. And so if someone is on, there's a lot of people right now on income based repayment plans, mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so if they're on income base, are you saying that across the board, everyone should plan on applying, or if you're already on an income base or fill out a FAF flow recently, then you don't need to worry about applying what's the delineation there.
Speaker 3:I would still plan on filling out that form unless you get some sort of notification from the department of education or from your servicer that they have that information because nobody's verified their income. Since I, I, the last ones were about March of 20, 20, somewhere 20, 21, somewhere in that range. So I would just plan on filling that out, even if you're on that income based street payment, but you may not have to, which would be great, but otherwise, you know, plan on filling that out.
Speaker 2:And that leads me to another question based on student loans. So we've heard a lot about repayments are gonna restart soon restart. We've heard, seen this jump back again and again, right? What are you hearing the latest in terms of restarting student loan payments?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the latest news is that they are starting January 1st, 2023. Now they've issued this, this is the third final extension that they have issued. So, uh, but I anticipate that we will see payments go back into, into effect in January, because at that point they'll have the 10 or 20,000 forgiven they're going to reevaluate people's payments. You'll be able to look at different repayment plans. And so plan on hearing from your servicers sometime in December, maybe November, cuz right now they really are saying, okay, we we've been on pause for two and a half years. Now we really need to get back on, on track with payments. So do watch your, your email for that check with your service or make sure your information is up to date because they will be reaching out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And I know we keep hearing this, so some of us may have a little bit of fatigue on that end, but it is good to know that, right. This more than likely. And one final question for you on that, on this forgiveness, is that a direct Stu, do you have to have a direct loan or could you have like the old F F E L loans or what do you have to have to be available for the forgiveness?
Speaker 3:Yeah, initially it was just going to be those direct loans, but they they've actually updated it and said that any FF, E L loans that they have, they're going to do the 10 or 20 of, of forgiveness for that. So those are owned by the department of education. There's a lot of FFEL loans though that are backed by the department of education, but they're owned by a financial institution. It could be a bank or, or someone like that. So they plan on forgiving 10 or 20,000 for those as well. They're trying to figure out if there's a way to make that more automatic, so that will be happening. But also parent plus loans are going to qualify. Wow. So if you got parent plus loans for your children, you could have 10 or, or up to 20,000 forgiven there as well.
Speaker 2:So this really is when we say sweeping, it is literally touching every part of a federal student loan, whether you're a parent student or went to school 20, 30 years ago, this still could affect you. Yeah, thanks for the information Ryan. And we will stay posted on that. Now let me switch gears on you. Once more, we are celebrating 30 years of the accredited financial counselor or AFC. I'd love to know your story of why you decided to pursue this designation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've been in AFC for, for quite a while. And now, so when I was an, an undergraduate student at Utah state, I ended up taking classes from Elena Johnson and gene L and others who had been heavily involved in a C P over the years. And gene L one of the things that she really pushed was go to the AFC symposium and get your AFC. Now I didn't do it right away. I got into financial planning and I focused on my various licenses and different things that I needed to get. But then when I decided to return to grad school and I went to Texas tech, I, I was taking classes and working with Dotty Durbin who has, was just recently on the podcast. And she really said, Hey, let's just, why don't you get this done, knock that AFC out, let let's get that designation for, you've got everything that you need to get it. So I put in those study hours and, and, and got the AFC. And it's, it's really the, the designation that I use the most in the work that I do. I've got my, my certified financial planner designation as well, but I feel like the AFC is the one that really connects me with my clients, especially working at a university and helping students with things like student loan debt and, and counseling issues and budgeting and credit and, and different things like that. The AFC I feel has given me such a strong foundation to be able to work with my, my students, that I really, I encourage my students to get it as well. In fact, over the last seven years at UVU, I've probably had, I don't know, 30 or 40 students that have taken and passed the AFC exam, uh, because, uh, I believe in it so heavily that, that I, I help them to get that as well.
Speaker 2:So it sounds like your entrance into the organization was similar to mine. As I went to a symposium was that one of yours is going to a symposium was one of your first memories.
Speaker 3:It was actually. So when I was at Utah state, I, Jean low really said, you, you I'd like to take a group of students to the symposium. So we took a class where I think we had some fees that helped pay for things, but I later found out that Jean low actually paid for quite a bit of that trip for a lot of us. I know she's, she believed so strongly in the organization though, that she took, I think there were four or five of us that went that very first year. And we went, I don't remember what year it was, but it would've been in St. Louis and probably around the year, 2000, 2001, somewhere in that range. And, and the symposium is, is it's my favorite event of the year. I try to go to three or four conferences a a year, but this, the AFC symposium is really the one that I look forward to the most every year.
Speaker 2:Well, tell us, what are you looking forward to most this year about being back in person?
Speaker 3:The people I'm, I'm so excited to see everyone again in person and, and whether people want six feet of space or, or they wanna be hugged. You know, I'm just excited to see them and, and to connect with them face to face. The last two years that the online symposium has been awesome and a F C P has done such an amazing job of putting on that symposium during the pandemic. But I, I am really excited to be back together in person, be able to see everyone and, and really connect again with all of those people that I see really only once a year at that symposium.
Speaker 2:You know, I've talked to several people that aren't a part of this organization, and it's hard to put into words what happens at the symposium and convey, cuz it is different than any other conference you go to. But I feel the same that it is the people and you almost have to be there to experience it. I would say you do have to be there to experience it cuz it's just a feeling and a connection that you really don't get other places.
Speaker 3:No, you really don't. It's it's still small enough. I mean, it it's a big conference. Let's not pretend like it's just a little, you know, classroom or anything. It's, it's a pretty big conference, but there's, there's some people that come back every single year and I'm, I'm excited to see them, but also to connect with people who are there for the first time I'm, I'm bringing probably 10 students this year that have never been before. And so, uh, the chance for them to connect with people like you and, and with others, the professionals out there, it's, it's such a great opportunity for everybody.
Speaker 2:Well, we hope to see many of you there. And at the end of each interview, Ryan, we like to ask our guests to share their 2 cents. If you had one piece of advice, they'll leave with our listeners, what would it be
Speaker 3:Initially? I'll share, go to the symposium, just like Mary said, register and, and get down there. We would love to see everyone down in Orlando, but then stepping back to my, my original topic that we talked about, about change, let's go back to there and I'll give 2 cents there as well. So I, I would say that recognize that we are change agents and that as, as financial professionals, we are able to, to really affect change for our clients. We're able to help them to make those changes in their lives, but we have to do the inner work first, before we can help other people. We have to focus on our own behavior change and improving in our own lives. So I'm excited to share my ideas. And my system is when we get to the symposium, I'm looking forward to, to getting up on stage and, and sharing these thoughts with other people so that they can start to affect that change in their own lives and then share that with their clients as well.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Ryan, for joining us on the show today, would you please tell our listeners where they can connect with you?
Speaker 3:Yeah. LinkedIn is a great place to connect with me. I I'm on that one more than I am any other platform and, but I'm also, I've got my own website, Ryan H law.com. If you go there, I'm building that website out new and, and I'm going to be linking to this financial behavior keynote group that Mary talked about in the introduction, going to be linking to some financial education that I'm providing. So connect with me on that website. I I'd love to have you follow me there and, and I'll give you updates there as, as they come out.
Speaker 2:Thanks as always for joining us. Thanks,
Speaker 3:Mary.
Speaker 2:It's always great having Ryan on the show. I love hearing his insights and I'm really looking forward to seeing him on stage with behavior change and how we can do that within ourselves and help our clients. If you haven't got your ticket yet for the symposium, it is November 16th through 18th in Orlando, Florida, and early bird pricing ends on September 30th. So grab your ticket. Now we have both an in person as well as a virtual option this year, they do an outstanding job of the virtual, but we also love to see you in person. So come on and need us there at this year's symposium.