A Deep Dive Into Student Loans and the PSLF with Rita Green, Ed.D. AFC®

This week, we're talking all about student loans with Rita Green, Ed.D. AFC®. Rita is an AFCPE board member and new author of How to Survive a Personal Financial Pandemic. In this episode, we dive straight into the Public Student Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) program and all of its requirements,  how you may be able to take advantage of the waiver by October, and many more insights on all types of student loans.

Regardless of whether you're listening for yourself or learning more for your clientele, Rita is a natural educator who provides incredible insights into the world of loans and navigating them during this time. Take a listen, and then take action!

Show Notes:
1:38 Rita's background story
2:29 How Rita discovered the AFC® certification
4:05 What is the PSLF program?
5:20 Who is considered "public service"?
9:08 What if your loans are older and you've been paying them for a while?
11:39 Advice for recent graduates
12:56 Resources Rita can share with us
16:23 Where to go if your situation is a bit more complicated
17:25 Types of student loans
20:26 Into Rita's book and surviving a "personal financial pandemic
28:22 What the AFC® means to Rita
32:52 Rita's final 2 cents

Show Note Links:

Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF)
Determine if your employer qualifies for PSLF
Temporary Expanded Public Service Loan Forgiveness (TEPSLF) Summary of Changes
Submit a Request for PSLF Reconsideration
PSLF Help Tool
Dr. Green’s website & book
#AFCPE22 in Orlando, FL
Start earning your AFC® or become a Member!

Want to get involved with AFCPE®?
Here are a few places to start: Become a Member, Sign up for an Essentials Course, or Get AFC Certified today!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome to real money, real experts, a podcast where leading financial counseling and coaching experts share their stories, their challenges, and their advice for helping people manage money in the real world. I'm your host, Rachel Daon interim executive director of the association for financial counseling and planning education for a F C P

Speaker 2: 0:25

E. And I'm your co-host Dr. Mary Bell Carlson, an accredited financial counselor or a FFC, and the CEO of Carlson consulting. Every episode, we're taking a deep dive into the topics that personal finance professionals care about helping clients, building community and your professional growth.

Speaker 1: 0:43

Today, we are excited to welcome Dr. Rita Williams green to the show. Rita is an accredited financial counselor and a current a F C P E board member, as well as the founder of green adult education services, LLC, a consulting firm that delivers training in the areas of financial capability, home ownership, entrepreneurship, and community development. Recently Rita published her first book, how to survive a personal financial pandemic, which uses the C language prevalent and popular culture today to demonstrate how to survive and thrive in tough economic times. Rita joins us today to talk about an incredibly important and timely topic for both our professionals and the clients that they serve, the public student loan forgiveness program, or PS L F. Welcome Rita.

Speaker 3: 1:35

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 1:38

Rita, I'm curious a bit about your background. Tell us how you got started in the field of financial

Speaker 3: 1:43

Counseling. Oh, that's a very interesting story because it's not a straight line. I actually started off in corporate America, uh, working as an accountant and started to feel something was missing. And wasn't quite sure what it was until I had an opportunity to teach a class. And, uh, as I continued my education got my master's degree, decided to pursue a doctorate and realize that personal financial education was something you could actually do for a living. I, I just wasn't consciously aware of that. So I've had a lot of lessons I've learned personally when it comes to finances. And that's part of what gives me such a passion for this area.

Speaker 1: 2:29

Rita, I'm curious, you are also an AFC. How did you discover the AFC certification? What led you to us?

Speaker 3: 2:37

I attended my first a F C P symposium in 2008. And if I'm not mistaken, we were in orange county, California and I had, I had only started working for Mississippi state university extension service for about two weeks by that time<laugh> so just, you know, right. As I started working, they said, oh, we gotta hurry up, get your travel approved. Because the specialist, at the time she was retiring. So they were already scheduled to go. They said, well, well you gotta come with us. And I said, okay, okay. You know, what, what is this<laugh> and went to the, uh, conference. And haven't been the same since had a ball and learned so much. Um, one of the things I appreciate about a F C P E is the diversity of people in personal finance, whether it's academia practice, just a, a very strong blend of a lot of different practitioners and people in this field. It, it is phenomenal.

Speaker 2: 3:47

I agree. It is one of the first experiences I remember too, becoming a part of this group is going to the conference. And yet don't think you realize it until you go just what a community it is. You just feel so connected and, oh, there's other people like me. You never realize that early on.

Speaker 3: 4:03

That's true.

Speaker 2: 4:05

Rita. You've talked a lot about the public student loan forgiveness, and let's clarify a bit, will you back up before we jump into the program, what is the public student loan forgiveness and how does it work for people?

Speaker 3: 4:20

This program public service loan forgiveness began in 2007. And so the goal was to provide some debt relief to public servant. So that could be government workers. It could be teachers, but at the time the goal was to kinda give people in that area, a break after making 10 years of qualifying payments, unfortunately about 98% of the applications that were submitted were denied. And now there, there came a call or more of a push to reform this program. So, so now we have the new version temporarily<laugh> of the public service loan forgiveness program. There's a waiver that's in effect until October where you can either reapply if you were in the program before or where you can apply for the first time under the new rules.

Speaker 2: 5:20

And so let's back up a little bit more. And when you say public service, let's define exactly who that is, who of our listeners should be paying attention to this?

Speaker 3: 5:30

Definitely anyone who is working for a nonprofit organization. Okay. And, and that is part of what has to be established when you first fill out the documentation to participate is whether or not you are employed by qualifying employer. So it could be government 5 0 1[inaudible] three, not for profit. There could be some other, not for profit organizations, also that qualify. And so when you first fill out that basic form and you put down your employer, you put down the periods of employment, they will determine at that time, if it's a qualifying employer.

Speaker 2: 6:13

Yeah. And this also includes people that are maybe working at a county state or local government too often when we think I live near Washington DC. So when I hear the word government, I obviously just think of the big federal system, but this is anybody that works in that domain. Quite honestly, it's a very large field. Anybody who's in public service or has been, and this is an important note that I think you were bringing up is if you have worked in these fields, it's worth finding out if you now qualify, because like you just said, the rules have changed. And so it's important to take note if you are now available where you may not have been a year ago,

Speaker 3: 6:52

That's true. You actually raised an important point because even if you're working for a for-profit company now, if you, you know, were working for a nonprofit a few years back during the time when you were making payments, you would definitely want to look into this program. One of the things, when the program was first introduced, it had such a high denial rate because the rules were fairly stringent at that time. So at that time, uh, you had to make on time payments, for example, now under the waiver, if you were to enroll in the program now until October, any payment that you make can be counted towards the 120 that's necessary, or that's required for the loan balance to be forgiven.

Speaker 2: 7:42

And some of those that had direct loans, like in the past, you had to have a direct loan in order to qualify. But I believe with this new waiver, there's been some indication that there are more loans that are being accepted for that. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Speaker 3: 7:58

Yes, that's true. The direct loans of course, would be included. You also have now the P's loans that will be considered. And, uh, there are also provisions F F E L is the federal family education loan program. And also if you have a loan consolidation, there are also some rules regarding how that works as well. So it's not just a direct loan program, as you mentioned, but some other types of federal loans, uh, under the student loan program as wiggle.

Speaker 2: 8:33

Yeah, absolutely. And so I think it's important to note for someone who's maybe listening and has older federal loans. And I do wanna make the point right now, these are only for anything that was given by the federal government. So if you've reconsolidated into a private loan, the rules are different, right? So these are called for public student loans. And one of the things that we'll make sure and do is include a lot of notes from the federal student aid that kind of explains what kind of group you need to be working for. And what loans qualify to help follow up with that? What would you recommend Rita for someone who maybe does have older student loans and has been paying on it for a couple of decades?

Speaker 3: 9:15

I would definitely recommend anyone who has been paying, whether it's older loans or even a little more recent loans. And, you know, at a minimum that you've been working for a nonprofit or a governmental agency just to fill the form out and you will get feedback as to whether or not you qualify and whether or not your payments qualify. And they will even give you account as to how many payments they are, uh, actually counting towards the 20 that you need for loan forgiveness. So just taking that initial step, because I almost didn't<laugh> for myself personally. Wow. Um, because I was still remembering the rules as they were when the program was first introduced. So I didn't really think anything that much had changed. And I just, something got my attention when I saw an article and I thought to myself, well, let me log to my servicer because of course the other thing that people may not be as sensitive to is we've been on a payment pause for over two years. And sometimes when you're not in that space where you're addressing the loans, you're not as sensitive to anything when it changes because Hey, you know, we, we, we're not required to make any payments. Currently. We know that the current payment pause ends at the end of August. And so all student loan bars are anxiously awaiting, uh, an announcement<laugh> that it's supposed to come soon from the white house regarding whether or not that pause will be extended. And so that's important also because in addition to the payments that you've made in the past, that will count towards your 120 that's required. The months that we've been on payment pause are also added towards the count of the 120. So let's say for example, I made, and I, if I were to pull my record of student loan payments in the past and I made 85 payments,

Speaker 1: 11:21

Okay,

Speaker 3: 11:22

Then I will count from the time payments were paused in March of 2020, all the way let's say to this current month, those months are also added to the number of payments that I made.

Speaker 1: 11:39

Oh, that's wonderful. The other question I have kind of in relation to that maybe for more recent graduates and they started out paying their loans, they're working in the public service field and are eligible or starting to be eligible for this. What would you say to someone for the last couple of years who maybe hasn't been paying their student loan and has adjusted their lifestyle, if, and when that pause period ends, what kind of advice would you offer? Someone like that?

Speaker 3: 12:08

I would definitely encourage them to submit the documentation for, uh, the waiver. Uh, that's in effect for PS L F just to determine where they are, how many payments would count towards the student loan forgiveness. Because even if you don't have 120, let's say you've been making payments recently, they, uh, you know, consider your information and you're only at 60. Then once the payments begin, you can go ahead and start repaying your loans under a income based repayment plan. And then those future payments you see will be then added to the 60, that they've already calculated for you,

Speaker 1: 12:56

Rita, you explained this all very clearly, but oftentimes the information can be confusing or convoluted. Are there resources out there where you would want to point people who have questions where it doesn't seem so cut and dry?

Speaker 3: 13:10

Oh, sure, absolutely. And I will also encourage people just to be patient and trust the process because<laugh>, you have all these different requirements, but to just fill out that first initial form and submit it is, is at least your first step. So it, it all starts with filling out the form and it's the form is actually very basic. I was able to get a copy of a form from my current loan servicer. So even if you do nothing else, but log into the account for the loan servicer or the organization that's receiving your, uh, student loan payments, they should have information. When I log into my servicer information about PSLF just pops up on the front of the screen. So they are, you know, taking great pains to, to bring it to your attention and say, you know, have you looked into this click on this link? And the link leads you to the student aid.gov page where the PSL F program is explained in detail. So once you get the form and you, and basically what the form is asking you for is just your basic information. The employer that you're saying qualifies you for this program, the dates of the employment. And then before you send the form off, you'll want to contact that employer, whether you currently work for them, or whether it's a pass employer, contact the HR department find out who is an authorized signer of that document and submit that form to them because what's happening is the HR person has to verify the dates that you included on that form or else you can leave the dates of employment open and they can fill it in. But of course, you know, you will wanna communicate that with them. Let's say, for example, you have a past employer and you just can't quite remember the exact dates, but you know, you know, basically what year you were working. So you, you know, you contact them and you say, well, I, I know I was here from 2003 to 2008, but I just don't know the months. And then they of course can put in the exact dates on that form. So their signature also has to be on it along with yours, for every employer, nonprofit employer that you had, where you were making payments, and you want, um, the department of education to consider those payments. So for example, I had two, uh, employers I needed, uh, for them to consider. So I took the form, filled it out for one of them, sent it off to the HR person. They sent it back to me. I sent that form to the servicer and then I went and did the same thing, filled out another form for the second employer. Days of employment sent it to HR, they signed it. And then I sent that, uh, to the organization that the department of education designated would be evaluating my payment count.

Speaker 2: 16:23

Rita, is there anywhere that someone could go, if they have more questions or a complicated situation they wanted to talk about

Speaker 3: 16:30

Your servicer should be able to help you currently fed loan servicing is doing the evaluation of the PS L F program. I do believe that another servicer has been identified to take care of it. And that's the only thing about, uh, programs like this is that sometimes things are changing and moving simultaneously. So I would recommend that everyone starts with the website, with the department of education student, a.gov.

Speaker 2: 17:08

Great. It will include all of those links in the show notes as well. Everything from how to submit a request to the expanded summary of the changes that have been made. So that way that you can find what you're needing. But yes, that's a great start is definitely start with your servicer. Let me switch topics a little bit on you and expand outside of just public student loans. Talk to us about these products. There's a lot of products out there right now that are being marketed as student loans, but as you know, not all are equal. So when funding your education, what types of student loans do you recommend?

Speaker 3: 17:43

Yes. It's so funny how you said that because I, that is a thing I say over and over again, that all student loans are not created equal, and this is the problem when we use the same language, but we no longer mean the same things. So in the past, it was commonly known that when you said the word student loan, that you meant a loan from the federal government, from the department of education, at some point, the law changed and undergraduates were then allowed to get private student loans. This has not always been the case. And back in my day<laugh>, which is a few years now,<laugh>, uh, so back in that day, if you needed, uh, student loan, let's say you didn't have enough Pell grant, uh, or you didn't have enough money and you apply for a student loan. It was just commonly known. You're applying to the department of education for a student loan, anyone getting a private loan. At that time, you were usually someone that was in medical school, law school, something of that nature. So then when we fast forward, at some point, the rules changed and undergraduates were allowed then to take out a student loan with a private lender. So when we say, say student loans, and this is actually a part of what I'm going to discuss with a group later this month, uh, because we're going into the fall. So, you know, it's almost time for our freshman now to leave and, and start their college careers that, uh, all student loans are not created equal. So I personally recommend, always start with the student loans from the federal government department of education, student loans, if you need one. So I wouldn't even necessarily assume that you absolutely have to have one. And so we know that everybody doesn't take the same route, but don't assume that you have to have student loans. I think it's my point. And also if you determine, let's say for example, because I have known students to take out student loans that didn't necessarily have to have them. So in other words, the student loans were available. Perhaps they had support through other programs. They could turn down the student loans and maybe they chose to go ahead and take.'em why take on unnecessary debt? You know, if you don't have to, if you don't need it, don't worry about it. The next year, when you apply for a federal financial aid, there'll still be more support there at the time that you need to have it.

Speaker 2: 20:27

And that actually is a good segue into your new book about how to survive a personal financial pandemic. Will you tell us a little bit more about the book and who could benefit from it?

Speaker 3: 20:37

I think pretty much anyone could benefit from it. I would like to believe that anyway,<laugh>, uh, and<laugh>, I was just inspired to take some of the COVID language that we are using currently, and to use it as an analogy for what you should be doing in your personal finances. So, for example, we were talking earlier about, you know, if you were diagnosed for COVID, for example, that you need to socially distance. And so one of the things I recommend in the book is do the same thing when it comes to debt, distance, your debt, and you can distance your debt either by paying it. So it's lower. And so you can move it away from you and hopefully eventually paying it off. But the goal is to move it away.<laugh>, uh, from you to, to, to increase the amount of distance between you and that debt. And we know, for example, you know, student loan debt, it is a huge debt and the, the troubling part about student loans. So student loans can, let me say, first of all, student loans is a tool, just like any other loan product. So it can be used for wonderful things. And it's wonderful that we have this program, particularly that you can borrow the money from the federal government, because when it comes to loan products, as we were stating, before you have the private student loans, you have the federal student loans, there are certain advantages to the federal student loans. You will not receive through the private student loans doesn't mean that the private student loans are worse necessarily. It just depends on what it is you're looking for. So for example, it's not uncommon when you get a federal student loan that you are not in repayment for those loans, as long as you're enrolled in school, I could not say for sure, if you have a private student loan, if those same rules apply. So the only thing with private student loan is it depends on who you borrowed the money from. So if it's a pro, if it's a student loan from bank of America, if it's a student loan from Wells Fargo, every lender is different. So every lender's rules may be different. Federal student loans, kinda all come under the same umbrella. So that's one of the reasons why there are certain things about them that we can pretty much say for sure, for everyone that, for example, once you get your degree, your loans are in deferment for about six months to give you time to get employment. And then we know that repayment will then begin. So nothing wrong with having student loans. It's just that because undergraduate students are so young and so inexperienced with money, and with having that kind of debt, that it can be a little troubling for someone that young to, to accrue that kind of debt over time. And we know that we live in a society that's very distracted. We are probably all distracted by our phones.

Speaker 1: 23:40

Absolutely.<laugh>,

Speaker 3: 23:41

There's all,<laugh>, there's all these influences that are trying to get our attention. And my point is we borrow the money, uh, for, you know, while we're in school and you don't get a bill, you might get a reminder every quarter that the loan is there.<laugh>, but it's kinda out of, out of sight out of mind. Uh, even if I know the loan is there, you're not making a demand on me, even if I know the loan is there. I may not get any documentation about, oh, what if the loan was due today? How much would it be? So you can sort of end up in a cycle where it's time to go to school and you just kind of move into a rhythm. Oh yeah. Gotta apply for student loans. And then you finish the semester and it's time for the new semester and you enroll and you say, oh yeah, gotta get student loans. The question is though, as you're moving through this process, are we paying attention to how much we owe so far? How much more are we adding to it? And this is, I personally think part of the reason why we have, uh, such a crisis in a sense with student loan debt today, even when I am teaching students in the classroom. And I try to use examples that they understand to explain business principles. And so, for example, if you have a student loan, the loan can be subsidized or UNSU subsidized while you're in school. If you have a student loan, that's subsidized, the federal government is paying the interest on those loans until you finish your degree. If your student loan is unsubsidized, interest is accruing on that loan even while you're in school. So then once you finish your degree, and if you were like me, I had a combination of subsidized and unsubsidized student loans. And so even before you're able to start your first job, not only do you have the debt in terms of the loan amount or the amount that you borrowed, you also will most likely have interest that have already started accruing on those loans. And unfortunately you start your new career with this<laugh>, uh, this debt

Speaker 4: 25:52

Over your head.

Speaker 3: 25:54

Well, you know, it's not a lot of fun. And I think everything is relative. If I have$40,000, for example, student loan debt. But I am about to start my career as a doctor. What that means for me may be very different than someone who has$40,000 of debt. And they're about to start their career as a retail store manager. So, you know, it just kind of depends. And so, you know, I think it's very important to just try to help parents and students to be aware, uh, yes, let's use the student loan tool, but let's be aware and conscious of, of what we're borrowing and ways that can help us borrow less. So for example, I even tell my students, why not take the winter break work, uh, somewhere temporarily, get the money for your books for spring. You, you won't have to borrow that part, you know, take that spring break time or take that summer break work and pay for your books for the fall. And that's that much less you have to borrow. You know, I've had students get upset with me a little bit because we'll start a new semester and they'll say, I already took this class before. Why do I have to buy a new code? So, because we use a online platform, why do I have to buy a new code? And I think to myself, this is interesting. You're paying for the class twice and you have no complaints.

Speaker 1: 27:25

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 27:26

But you're a little upset that you have to buy the, the access to this online platform for the class two times. It's, it's more of a, a perspective the money is coming out of your pocket. Now that has your attention, but because you borrowed the money possibly for your education, it, it, it never crosses your mind that, wait, wait a minute. I'm paying for this class two times. So that's even more student loans you see that could be increasing my debt and making things worse later. It's just that it's hard to see right now because it's not due. They know I'm young. It doesn't matter right now. You see, you know, at some point it, it will matter. So hopefully if we can learn to pay attention to these things early distance, that debt as much as possible on the front end, then things will be a whole lot better, hopefully on the back end.

Speaker 1: 28:21

Yeah. Rita. That's great. And I think, you know, what you're kind of describing here too, is that just in time financial education, and I think we need more AFCs that are able to meet people where they are, and it doesn't look the same to everyone everybody's situation when they're approaching college and how to pay for it looks different, but giving them that information up front so they understand what their decisions mean and can make better choices now, and later is, is just so important. This year marks the 30th anniversary of the AFC. And I think, you know, as you are a natural educator and as you've been educating our listeners today, you're a really good representation of, of an AFC. I'm curious, what does the AFC certification mean to you?

Speaker 3: 29:10

It's important to have that certification because I find it interesting that we tend to take advice from a lot of different people.<laugh>, uh, TV personalities, people that I am looking at them. And I'm like, why are we listening to you? Like, do you have any background in personal finances? Do you, do you have some kind of credential or something I can trust in? So just as you would, uh, visit a doctor, I wanna make sure you know, that my doctor has a degree in medicine, same thing with money. If I am talking to someone about money, I wanna make sure that the person I'm talking to knows what they're talking about. And, and the other thing I wanna say too, about being a credited financial counselor, I think we need to really reduce the stigma related to financial challenges. For example, there's been discussion a lot of discussion, uh, recently about reducing the stigma related to mental health, because you want people to seek help if they're having a problem with their mental health. I think the same thing holds true for money. Financial counseling is extremely important, but a lot of consumers are not aware that there are accredited financial counselors out here that can help them. They're not sure where they would start in terms of locating one. I would even suspect that many people don't know that your insurance, your health insurance comes with benefits that may give you access to a financial counselor, for example, and these resources are important even when I was working just different roles I've had in personal finance, uh, you all will recall the great recession of 2007, I believe is when it started. And one of the things that happened during that time is a lot of people found themselves in danger, foreclosure. And so in an effort to help people, a lot of organizations came together to hold foreclosure fairs, places where people could come sit down with the lender right there and try to get some assistance with their mortgage. And one of the things they found was these events were not as successful as they would have liked because no one wanted to come and no one wanted to be seen that way or, or run the risk. Especially if you live in a small community or running into someone that you knew, for example, and for someone to say, oh yeah, you know, she must be in trouble with her house payment. I saw her, you know, at that foreclosure fair. And I, I think it's important that we do what we can as AFCs, and, and no matter what our roles are, if you're a financial planner or even some CPAs to help people when they are having financial problems, be honest about that. So they can get the help that they need.

Speaker 1: 32:21

That's great. Rita, I think it is true. There is a lot of talk out there right now about the stigma related to mental health and, and personal finances, the same way. There's a lot of shame surrounding not having the answers. And the truth is, is that everybody, at some point in their life is going to have a personal financial issue where they need some guidance and, and, and support. And there is no shame in asking for help. So I appreciate that perspective.

Speaker 2: 32:52

Absolutely. And I think a lot of it is doing exactly what we're doing and that is talking about it. The more we talk about it, the less it hides in a dark corner, and it's kind of brought out into the light. So thank you for bringing it up. Rita. At the end of each interview, we like to ask our guests to share their 2 cents. If you had one piece of advice to leave with our listeners, what would it be?

Speaker 3: 33:12

Oh my goodness. I'm, I'm sitting here thinking, okay. Which piece<laugh> I, I don't have 2 cents. I have<laugh> I think I have 99 cents, um,

Speaker 2: 33:26

Thousand dollars, huh? Serious.

Speaker 3: 33:28

I am so serious. Don't lend what you cannot afford to give away. I am a big fan and I don't watch all, uh, court shows, but I am a big fan of the original television talk show, the people's court. Oh yeah. And, um, one of the reasons why I, I watch that show is because I learn a lot from it and I'm, I'm very good. I, I really like shows that, that stick to the issue, you know, at hand, uh, in terms of, of, you know, what the, the case is about and what's happening. And so you see so many instances where you have family members, for example, loaning money to each other or friends. And I, you know, you see, and this is part of what we deal with too, as AFCs, uh, when you are counseling people that intersection between money and relationships. And if it comes down to the money or the relationship, uh, at the very onset of that and someone that you are related to, or even that you're in a relationship with asks you to, you know, for a loan, I say, consider then if you can give that money and never see it again and be okay with it, that that is probably about the only time you should, uh, lend it.<laugh> mm-hmm<affirmative> If you can't walk away from it, if you can't let it go, if it's gonna be a problem, if the person cannot repay for some reason, then come up with an amount that you can walk away from. So if they're asking you for 2000, but you don't get the 2000 back, you know, you're gonna have a problem with that. But if you were to give them$350 and you'd be okay if you never saw it again, that is a way of at least meeting them. Halfway, of course, you know, three 50 isn't half of 2000, but, uh, you're at least offering something, but losing a relationship isn't worth the money. So, you know, consider carefully, uh, when you're dealing with your close family and friends and a money issue is involved, you know, don't lend, uh, what you can't afford to give away because you you'll wanna keep that relationship. And ultimately the money won't be worth it. If the relationship is gone,

Speaker 1: 35:46

Rita, that's great advice. And thank you so much for joining us today and for sharing all your wisdom with us, tell the listeners, where can they connect with you and where can they buy your book?

Speaker 3: 35:56

They can go to grades, G R a D E S like grade, like<laugh> like making a grade in school. Yeah. Grades, llc.com. And there, you can see the book trailer and purchase a book. If you like,

Speaker 1: 36:10

Thank you so much, Rita.

Speaker 3: 36:12

Oh, absolutely. Y'all have a good day.

Speaker 1: 36:14

Mary. I loved having Rita on the show today. I think no matter who the listener is, whether you're a professional working with a client, whether you're listening for yourself, you know, this topic around student loans is so important right now. I loved all the resources and information that Rita shared. She is a natural educator. You can hear it in her voice and the passion that she talks about this topic. And I loved what she offered at the end, just about reducing the stigma that is surrounding so many of these topics. And, you know, as an educator, she's talking to students every day and I just encourage our listeners. You know, you can be the person that helps reduce that stigma, you know, be honest, be open it's conversations like these that really make the difference and give people courage to just speak up and ask for help. If you're not sure where to start. If you have topics or questions around this, we'll have some notes in the show notes today. If you happen to be an individual who's not in the personal finance space, but is just interested in personal finance, you know, check out our website, find an afc.org. There are a lot of great professionals out there that can answer these questions. I just really appreciate Rita coming on and, and sharing this with us.

Speaker 2: 37:31

Yeah, I think that's the very important thing is talking about it. The more we talk about it as professionals, as individuals, as families, it really is a healthy way. And sometimes it's filled with emotion and that's okay. You know, it's just allowing it to be discussed. And that's the most important part. I do appreciate Rita gently reminding us that this deadline is coming up because this opportunity with the expanded PSL F program is a unique one. And so I would encourage any of our listeners, whether you are a practitioner or whether you are an individual to look into it, if you have any kind of federal student loans, it sure doesn't hurt to ask the questions. If any of them can be forgiven, cuz it is a very unique program. And so we encourage anybody to be timely with this. I'm glad that we were able to get this out quickly and before the deadline and just making sure that if you're a practitioner, you know this information so you can best serve your clients. And if you're an individual, so you can better help yourself and thank you to Rita and the passion that she brings to teaching you just hear it in her voice and how excited she is about personal finance. So thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 38:42

Absolutely. And if you enjoyed our podcast today, please leave us a rating and review. That's how others find us. Thanks again for listening until next time.