Real Money, Real Experts

Discovering Your Niche and Growing Your Private Practice with Maggie Klokkenga, CFP®, CPA®, and Rachael Bronstein, AFC®

April 26, 2022 AFCPE® Season 2 Episode 8
Real Money, Real Experts
Discovering Your Niche and Growing Your Private Practice with Maggie Klokkenga, CFP®, CPA®, and Rachael Bronstein, AFC®
Show Notes Transcript

In this final episode of our Real Money, Real Experts Career Series, we catch up with Rachael Bronstein and Maggie Klokkenga. Tune in as they share their own experiences in starting a private practice and how honing in on your niche can lead to a more successful, fulfilling career.

Maggie Klokkenga, CFP®, CPA, and AFC® candidate is a financial coach and the owner of Make a Money Mindshift, a financial coaching and planning firm in central Illinois where she helps individuals and couples to reduce their overwhelm and shame with money. 

Rachael Bronstein is an Accredited Financial Counselor & financial coach for Jean Chatzky’s FinanceFixx program. Rachael also launched a company last May to help touring music professionals simplify their life & finances, called Life’s Jam.


Show Notes:
3:24 Rachael's journey to personal finance
11:33 FinanceFixx Program
14:11 Maggie and multiple streams of income
16:24 Rachael's tips for small business owners
18:26 Tools Rachael found helpful early on
21:18 Maggie's tips for small business owners
24:29 What led Maggie to pursue the AFC
28:15 Guests' final 2 cents

Show Note Links:

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AFCPE Resources:

Speaker 1:

Welcome to real money, real experts, a podcast we're leading financial counseling and coaching experts share their stories, their challenges, and their advice for helping people manage money in the real world. I'm your host, Rachel da own interim executive director of the association for financial counseling and planning education for a F C P .

Speaker 2:

And I'm your co-host Dr. Mary Bell Carlson, an accredited financial counselor or AFC , and the CEO of Carlson consulting. Every episode, we're taking a deep dive into the topics that personal finance professionals care about helping clients, building community in your professional growth. Today, we are excited to welcome to guest star show Rachel Bronstein and Maggie clocking gay . Rachel is an accredited financial counselor and financial coach for Jean chat's finance fix program. Rachel also launched a company last may to help touring music professionals, simplify their life and finances and a it's called life jam. She wanted to combine her love for music and her expertise in finance to help the music industry. This was in response that the hardship created for the music industry professionals due to the halt in live music events. Since so much of the music industry is made up of freelancers. Rachel wanted to make sure these music professionals were set up, correct , both personally and professionally. Rachel currently offers one-on-one coaching in the music space and will be coaching the spring sessions of finance fix . And for her money , media, Maggie is a financial coach and the owner of make a MoneyMind shift, a financial coaching and planning firm in central Illinois. She helps individuals and couples reduce their overwhelm in shame with money, by sharing with them, why they've made past spending choices, which empowers them to change their current spending patterns and achieve those financial goals. They only dreamed about Maggie teaches that once you discover your why you can adjust your mindset and change your house to achieve your, what Maggie has made in the financial services industry for 25 years and is a certain financial planner certified public accountant, and is currently working toward accredited financial counselor certification. Thank you for joining us on the real money. Real experts.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, Rachel and Mary, this is so exciting for us to be here.

Speaker 4:

Yes, very excited.

Speaker 1:

Maggie and Rachel were so excited to have you here today. And Rachel, I first connect with you at last year's symposium and we share the same first name and we spell it the same way, which doesn't happen too often.

Speaker 4:

Yes , it was a very funny find and you were so welcoming and kind to me and I was changing careers and fields and industries, and I really felt that you welcomed me to the organization with open arms. So thank you .

Speaker 1:

I appreciate that. And I also appreciated at the time, I think you were just finishing up your AFC certification and it was your first symposium and not only did you attend, but you really leaned into the event. And I was really pleased. You hosted a virtual meetup about maximizing your LinkedIn, which was really incredible. And I could tell just from the moment I met you, that you had a passion for this work.

Speaker 4:

Oh, thank you. I've always kind of been a sponge for information. And once I absorb it, I just wanna share it with whoever it could help. And so I just wanted to take everything I had learned and on growing my LinkedIn presence over the last year and share it with this community who I thought could benefit.

Speaker 1:

So Rachel , why don't you get us started? Tell us a little bit about your journey to personal finance and what inspired you to pursue a career in this space?

Speaker 4:

Sure. Well, I've been exposed to personal finance since I was young. My mom was one of the first female independent financial planners at her brokerage firm. She had started as a teacher and recreated herself when my dad had gotten sick and she, I had kind of been around her, starting a business and, and diving into this field from a very young age. I decided that that wasn't the way I wanted to go though, but I did love finance. So I started at NBC in production finance and made my own way through my career life and kids and marriage and a move to Miami, sort of all happened. Unfortunately, I lost my mom due to cancer and had to sell her business rather quickly. And at that point I still was not in the personal finance field, but I was trying to figure out what made me happy professionally. I had always put other priorities first, including raising a family, which I love. However, this was sort of a time for me to reflect and see if there was something that I could do that fulfilled me professionally. So I, I decided right as COVID was happening with this kind of forced downtime to get unstuck. And I hired a business coach, which I had never done before, but I decided to invest in myself professionally. And the business coach said that every time I talked about music, I lit up. So I had worked at music festivals over the years, and I decided to see if there was a problem in the industry that I could solve. And I was able to find that finance and financial literacy and education was a huge gap in the space. So much of the industry was freelancers. Not only did they have to run their personal finances, life on the road made that especially challenging. And they also had to run small businesses as freelancers. And so having all those pieces set up correctly was something that I thought I could offer. And so all at the same time of that, I decided to get certified as an accredited financial counselor. I also Jean Chatzky who wanted to take me on as a financial coach. And so it was sort of everything just started happening once I kind of found my way,

Speaker 1:

I was just gonna say, I love that. And I love how it just that one conversation with a business coach who, you know, sometimes you can't even see the passion you have for something being able to identify that piece that lit you up, and then you being able to find those gaps to fill.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I love how these stories about how people got into the profession. Disin inspire so many and Rachel, I can say my myself and other listeners feel that same passion for the industry, but also want to have that home life balance as well. And that's why I think financial counseling and coaching is such a win for so many. So Maggie, let's switch over to you. I know that you and I come from very similar paths as well. Um , personal finance, you were also a bank teller in high school and call, tell us about how your role in the early years led to where you are today. So

Speaker 3:

That was so funny when we both realized we were both bank tellers in high school. So for me, it was again, starting off actually as a bank teller . And I realized I liked working with people's money, but I didn't necessarily think that I wanted to be a bank teller . The rest of my life, talked to my parents and they had suggested, you know, why don't you look into accounting as your college major? Because you know, that's the international language of business. I went ahead and did that and , uh , took the CPA exam , uh , right before I graduated from college, passed it first time, thank goodness, and was in public accounting for about 15 years. And what I realized as I was climbing up the ranks essentially was I was working on tax planning for high net worth individuals. And, you know, after a while it just gets really technical. And to me, it was getting kind of a little bit boring. I really wanted to work with people in all of the realms of their money. And so I moved over into an investment advisory firm, literally down the street from the public accounting firm where I was at, and really enjoyed working with people in that space, in just the comprehensive financial planning. I ended up getting my certified financial planner designation while I was there and continue to work with individuals, just helping them with just different money situations that had they had coming up. What I was realizing though, and this also was something that happened with COVID is that we were primarily working with retirees and pre retirees. And these people, you know, they had adult children and the adult children had cash of problems. And I really wanted to be able to help them. And what we would do is we would provide them a financial plan, but then we would just say, here you go and go ahead and, and , and follow this and come back to us later on. And I really wanted to help them, what I call walk before they run. So really helped get their cashflow ducks in a row. And so that's where I decided to launch my own firm, make a money mind shift last year. So around the same time as Rachel ironically, and we're both finance, fixed coaches. So it's been great. Even getting to know Rachel Bronstein in this manner. In fact, she, when she had gotten her AFC designation and like you said, Mary, in the intro, I'm still working on mine because there's so much great material and it just takes time. And I also need to make time for it.

Speaker 2:

Maggie, I love your background. And I honestly love knowing you, I have to say you and Rachel both are just stars in this field because one of the things I like about you both is that you are pretty much both newcomers to financial counseling and coaching, and yet no one would ever know. I , I have to share the story of how we met. I was on a podcast. You heard one of our podcasts from over a year and a half ago, and you sent me a LinkedIn message and said, Hey, we have a similar background. It kind of told me and related a few things. And then I said, Hey, yeah, let's reach out and do a call. And honestly, on that call, I think we talked for an hour and a half and became almost instant friends ever since. And I, I think that that's, we so highly of both you and Rachel, that you're just willing to put yourself out there to make connections and just jump right in with both feet and anybody listening . I would encourage you to do the same. This community is open, it's inviting. And it's so welcoming for people who are wanting to start their own business or their own practice.

Speaker 3:

I totally agree, Mary, I think like you said, we immediately hit it off. And one thing that impresses me always about Rachel Bronstein is what she said in the beginning that she's a sponge. She takes in the information and then she just shares it. And just in any way she can. And it's, it's so great to see and to learn from her because we all know that we learn and we can grow from it. It's just being open to it. But I think that she's always been just as long as I've even known Rachel, just a fantastic resource.

Speaker 4:

Aw , I'm blessing guys. Thank you. <laugh> I will say though, when you're owning your own business, it's a constant balancing act of doing and learning. So we, if spend all our time learning and going to webinars and , and doing only that we're not spending any time building the crux of our business, right? So through all of this, I have really worked on my time management and a setting reasonable expectations every day , because there's no one else doing it, right. If we wanna accomplish it, we have to be the doers. So kind of setting achievable goals, not taking on more than we can handle. There's always a list that those dreams and wishes can go on, but your everyday to-dos have to be able to be accomplished and kind of time blocking that to get it done.

Speaker 1:

One of the things we definitely wanna touch on today is private practice. But since we're talking about origin stories between each of us and you both, I'm curious, both of you met working for Jean Chatzky and her money media. Can you tell us a little bit about how you met working together on the finance fix program?

Speaker 4:

Okay. Maggie was my coach in training, but just to back up the story a little bit, even from my early days at NBC, when I was in my twenties, I had always loved Jean Chasky . I loved how she talked about money and broke it down into bite size , easy to digest pieces. And five years ago, I saw that she was launching this company called her money media, and I had signed up for the newsletter and started to, you know, see what was going on and, and stay on her radar and really funny story. But I had always wanted to work for her and before I could figure it out, I decided that I would try to get on her radar. So she was sharing her newsletter and you could earn referral points. And so I was emailing the link to my friends and family and acquaintances and saying, Hey guys, this is an awesome newsletter. You should sign up. And by the way, I'm really hoping to be the winner. So <laugh> Milestones, oh, Rachel brought in five referrals. Now you brought in 20. And I got a , the way up to 54 referrals. I kept in touch with the operations manager who kept emailing me that I won another prize. And I saw that she was launching this program called finance fix. And I said, Hey, by the way, do you need coaches? And she said, send me your resume. And to make a long story short Jean and I hit it off, that it was great. And she mentioned, by the way, you may wanna look into this certification. I had actually thought about going into financial planning with my mom, way back when, and I had even gotten halfway through the classes of pursuing a different certification, but gene spoke so highly of the AFC certification that I decided to check it out. And so I decided to take it on. And I went through the learning and I took the test and I passed the exam. And at the same time, Jean said, come be a coach in training. I have a class led by Maggie and little did I know how amazing Maggie would be? And Maggie was just a rock star and guided me through the whole process and we hit it off and I passed my certification and I came on to teach my first class. And I just can't say enough about Maggie. Maggie is so supportive a leader, empathetic really there for the, the participants. And it's been a pleasure to be part of this organization.

Speaker 2:

I love how you've been able to relate finance fix and also, so make it a part of your own coaching and business practices. Maggie, you also have a private practice, but you have multiple income streams as well.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So Rachel Bronstein and I were actually talking about this earlier in that one of the things as a financial planner that I feel is kind of drilled into us , as we're thinking about launching our own investment advisory firm is it's gonna take you up to three years to really get, you know , uh , some recurring revenue that could help sustain you and your family. And that's not a typical statement made to most entrepreneurs. So because of that, you know, there was a couple avenues that I could take with that. It could be that I could have savings built up and, or I could have multiple income streams. One of the things that I had thought when I launching my own practice was I was launching right around the time that tax season was coming upon and being a certified public accountant, that is something that's in demand. So that being able to work, you know, and prepare taxes and review tax returns for a CPA firm during tax season, that was a school income stream since then , that has , um, parlayed into working for a fractional CFO company, because I felt that that was more aligned. So along with being a coach for finance fix, you know, I think that just having, you know, eyes wide open and, and realizing it , it's not going to be an overnight success. And I think, you know, being an entrepreneur, there are so many nuances that occur that you may not realize. So one thing that I would absolutely advocate for is just getting those informational interviews. And Mary that's really something that when I first had reached out out to you is , was doing, is just getting information and soaking it up. But just like Rachel does, you know, being a sponge and , and trying to learn so that, you know, I'm learning from others who have gone before

Speaker 2:

Me listening and asking questions is a great way to learn about the industry. Thank you so much for sharing that. Rachel, I have a question for you. You also own your own private practice as well. You've also offered some great business advice, including hiring a coach and time management. What other tips do you have for small business owners?

Speaker 4:

I have grown up, like I mentioned, my mom was an entrepreneur. I actually, when I moved down to Miami, I helped my husband launch a law firm. So I realized I actually have a lot of small business exp , but when you dive into something of your own, you have to remind yourself of all of the business steps that you also have to take. It's not just about the financial coaching, which is super exciting at the beginning. And you just wanna dive in. So I will admittedly say I did it a little backwards this time. I figured out I worked with my business coach. I figured out what at the problem was that I was gonna solve, I did work towards getting financial coaching going, but then I got it going and realized that I didn't really have any processes in plates. You know, I didn't have the templates, I didn't have the automation. And while that there's plenty of time for that to come later, clients started coming in and I realized, I wish I had set some of that up. You know, kind of defining what you offer. Do you offer multi-session appointments? Do you offer one hour appointments? Are they shorter? Are they longer when someone signs up? Are they clicking on a calendar link? That was probably the best thing I ever did was sign up for Calendarly or there's a couple other providers as well that do it, setting up some automation to make your life easier. Um, because we're needed in so many different facets of our new business, right? We're, we're building relationships where working on content, we finding clients. And so just kind of embracing that it's a big undertaking that you're taking and recognizing all the progress progress you're making, but giving yourself time and patience to have it all fall into place. That's what I've had to remind myself a lot of lately.

Speaker 2:

And it's really just you you're the back office, front office, marketing person, CEO, everything. So you mentioned coly . Are there any other tools that you found very helpful in those early years?

Speaker 4:

One of the things is one of the initial things you have to decide is if you're getting incorporated, are you an LLC? Are you electing an Corp ? All of those kind of decisions. You need an E I number there's a , there's a order that you wanna do that. So you wanna make sure your business name is available through your state. Um , first, before you apply for your E N number. So if you're not good or ver well versed in that area, it's probably better to seek outside help to guide you with those little things. So you don't make a mistake and you can focus your energy on something else. Um, building my website, I decided to find a woman who specialized in music websites, it , and I, I picked the doit yourself version. So I watched her video tutorials taking me through building a squares based website. She has , uh , an option where I could have just had her do everything, but so I had gone into it with a certain budget in mind, and I was trying to really stay low on the cost end of things, until I felt like this was something I could make work and that I was ready to commit to. I had kept my day job for a really long time. I've just transitioned out of that recently. Um, so kind of getting yourself organized. Another great thing that I have found is I like to pick one or two people or mentors or webinars or podcasts that are your go-to resources. So for me, I listen to Kim Cal K I M K a U P e.com . She's all about creating your, your presence online, your, your entrepreneurship, all of that. And then I attended different webinar. That's focused on all music and brings in different music executives. So I really stayed to my niche. I wanted to learn the niche and then I wanted to learn how to improve my business all at the same time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. You went about this so smart because you started with a niche and I think that's an important factor that we probably left off is that's one of the very first steps is what your business coach told you, what lights you up? What makes you so excited to get up in the morning?

Speaker 4:

Yes, definitely. And I'm telling you when she first brought it up, I started laughing. I'm like, no, that's just something I do for fun. She's like, no, I think you should look into this.

Speaker 2:

Wow. So really that business coach set you off on the right path before you even had the business to start with.

Speaker 4:

I feel like she ripped off the dream bandaid. Like she let it out and then I had to then go do all the work, which she reminds me of. She's like, I was there for you, but you did all the hard work.

Speaker 2:

Now, Maggie, I know you came about with your business in a different way, and I'd love to hear a few tips that you have for small business owners.

Speaker 3:

The way I came about it was I, I kind of think of myself as the reluctant entrepreneur, Rachel Bronstein came from a family of entrepreneurs and, and I have not. And so I, it was something that was foreign to me. It was something that I wasn't quite sure that I wanted to do, but I felt this tug on my heart for several years and just kind of a whisper. It was where I really , I knew I wanted to help people more on their cashflow first and foremost, and then work on comprehensive financial planning. So what I ended up doing was I ended up , um , teaching financial peace university with my husband , um , at our church and trying to see if that would fulfill that need. And what happened was , um, there were individuals and couples who were coming to the class saying that they had been there two or three times. And I really was very surprised by that. And I thought, okay, they are on a hamster wheel. How do we get them off this hamster wheel? And so then that's what really got me going into just delving into the psychology of money and why we do the things we do. And so from there, just really studying Dr. Brad CLOs , who was, you know, a keynote speaker at the, a F C P symposium last year , um , and really diving into, you know, money scripts. He and his father, Ted clients had had coined just that really set up the framework for me in and the foundation for how I work with my clients. So I'm sharing with them why we do the things we do with our money. And by getting that awareness, then they're able to then make changes. Hopefully we'll project them into a better way where their money is aligned with their values and not where they're just, you know, using their money and how they've always used it before.

Speaker 1:

I love that journey. And what you shared, I think, you know, so often there's so many good things that come out of, you know, programs like financial P east , but I think, you know, something you learn along the way is that it's not one size fits all , and we all have different backgrounds and values and religious practices. And, you know, there's just, we're all very unique in learning how to help people align their spending and their planning with their values is, is really at the forefront and so important.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. I completely agree. And that's it really when I started actually doing pro bono coaching before I had left my , um , previous firm and when, and I was working with couples, they had said to me, you know, Maggie in the 20 years that we've been married, we've never been able to talk to each other about money this way without getting into a fight. And it literally, Rachel filled my soul. Like, I just thought, this is it. This is, this is what I meant to do. And so it is. Yeah, exactly. And, and that's where I just kept moving forward after that.

Speaker 1:

So Maggie and Rachel, you're both really well versed in personal finance when it comes with the work you do, Maggie, you have several certifications. I'm just curious for someone who's out there who is a private practitioner, who's starting a financial coaching practice off . Often times people start a practice and they are not certified. And I'm just curious what drew you to the AFC and what you would tell someone who might be thinking about or interested in pursuing that designation?

Speaker 3:

I feel like I came from it backwards. So I have a certified financial planner designation and the AFC , again, going back to Jean Chatzky , she's always talked so highly of the, a F C P E . And again, similar to Rachel, when I'd heard about her having a finance fix coaching program, I would wanted to be a part of it. And I knew that getting the AFC designation would just really supplement , um , my coach inability where I feel that AFC works so well, is that the, where honestly, the CFP designation doesn't dive deep into the debt and the counseling and the emotions tied into, you know, what you know about my credit score. I feel that, you know, the C F P will to touch on it, but the AFC really gets more, so much more granular. And, and that's what I really appreciate because it was more, like I said, on a high level with the CFP. So the AFC to me is really starting that foundation for cash planning and counseling. And,

Speaker 4:

And for me, I agree Maggie, I did find it through Jean . However, I had gotten a degree in financing college and worked at companies where I hadn't necessarily needed another certification. I had thought about going for my MBA at one point and life and kids and everything sort of got in the way, which is fine, but I was at a point in career that I wanted to do to something different. And this was a certification that sort of says, she knows what she's talking about. And it also gave me confidence that I knew what I was talking about. It, let me , um , brush up on some skills that maybe I hadn't thought about in a while, like Maggie says it dives into debt and credit. It was a , it was a springboard for me, reading other books and literature on the subjects. And so I really enjoyed it as a learning experience. And also as a person , personal development experience,

Speaker 2:

Rachel, you make such a good point that so often I hear people saying, well, do consumers notice this, right? Like what does this destination give me with consumers? Will it bring in clients? And yet, I don't think that's the right question to be asking. I think you just stated it perfectly is what's in it for me. How is it gonna help me with my own confidence, with my own knowledge base, with my own skills, because that's really at the end of the day, what clients care about is how you relate to them and how you care about them. And what you know, are you just a one track wonder that just has one thing to give, or do you have a whole set of toolkits and tools that you can use in that kit?

Speaker 4:

And one important thing is for anybody that's starting this journey , any or newly certified and nervous that you don't know at all, it's okay. We don't have to have all the answers. We just have to keep working on finding the places to go for the answers. So we're there to support. We're there to provide accountability. We're there as a sounding board to provide some better habits, some planning, but we don't have to have the answer to everything so we can find it. There's lots of people that are very specialized and we can guide our clients to those answers.

Speaker 2:

You both have done so much to help listeners today. And at the end of each interview, we like to ask our guests to share their 2 cents. If you each had one piece of, I still live with our listeners, what would it be?

Speaker 3:

So entrepreneurship to me, it's not for the faint of heart because you are the CEO. You are the chief everything officer. There are incredible highs and lows. Those can happen in the same day or literally within the same 15 minutes. But that being said to be able to build your own business, the way that you want is incredibly satisfying. And it may be what you need to answer that poll at your heart or that whisper in your ear that you've been hearing for years.

Speaker 4:

And my 2 cents would be that besides working towards certification, which I thought was amazing, that you need to figure out what problem you were going to solve. And what's your target audience because having a niche in this industry really helps you focus and makes you more marketable within a certain group. So for me, that has been an accident sort of, but a blessing. And I love it and I'm embracing it. And I'm finding things that are industry specific to be relatable. And I think that at the end of the day, everybody wants somebody that can understand their situation.

Speaker 2:

Rachel , you even mentioned about how your business really took off during COVID and what a great time this is for financial coaches and counselors to start their own businesses.

Speaker 4:

Yes. And private practice. Financial coaching might not be for everybody because it is hard work, as Maggie said, and there are so many highs and lows, but with the emphasis on financial wellness due to COVID , I find that there's even positions in financial wellness at , at companies and organizations that people are looking to fill. So there are a lot of avenues to pursue right now in financial coaching.

Speaker 1:

Maggie, Rachel, thank you so much for being on the show today. Can you tell our listeners where they can connect with you?

Speaker 3:

So to connect with Maggie, they can go to my website, which is make a money, mind shift.com . You can also connect with me , um , personally on LinkedIn. You can find, make a money mind shift also on Instagram and Facebook, as well as YouTube.

Speaker 4:

And to connect with me, you can find my website at life's jam.com . So L I F E S J a M or I, and can be reached on LinkedIn under my personal profile, Rachel Bronstein, or on Instagram and Facebook life's jam.

Speaker 2:

Thank you both so much.

Speaker 3:

Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Mart was such a pleasure to have Rachel and Maggie on the show today. They have so much energy, so many great insights, and this episode was filled with many good tips and resources for those starting out or growing their private practice. I love how they touched on the nuances of being an entrepreneur. You know, I think people are really excited about branching out into private practice, but just even thinking through those things that you need to do to get started, you know, having multiple street of income to start out, or if not that, you know, what do you have in savings to get started and leaning in to networking with others? You know, just don't underestimate those relationships that you build, both Maggie and Rachel are so great at that. You know, I mentioned Rachel offered LinkedIn tips to attendees at the symposium last year, and she's doing that during our career week, this week as well. And, you know, she gives as much as she absorbs and takes in. And so I think as you're building your private practice, not being afraid to reach out and network with the community, it's, it's so important

Speaker 2:

AB absolutely. You know what? This is the moment that I look back and say, I love what I do with this podcast. I just think it's so fun to interview wonderful people and get to see a little bit of inside how their systems work and what their business is like as an entrepreneur myself, I can relate to a lot of what Maggie and Rachel say in terms of it's a lot of work to be an entrepreneur. And I don't think that they sugar coated that at all, but there's also, you know, that other side of the coin, which there is a lot of pleasure that you can get from it. So I really appreciate them coming on this podcast and giving us really the hard, true facts of owning your own firm. And I love the fact too, like you said, they have multiple income streams, but Rachel even mentioned at the end that if entrepreneurship isn't for you, there are so many opportunities for financial coaches and counselors and Rachel, as we really wrap up this career season have been doing it really kind of highlights all of the things we've been talking about, whether you're working for a large firm, a small firm, your own firm, nonprofit , a for-profit, wherever it is, what an impact and what a difference you can make and just small, but very tangible ways. And I think that's what it really took away from Rachel and Maggie. Both is they have made such a tremendous impact on their communities and those that they're helping and what a mark they're leaving, not just on the profession, but even those lives that they are changing every time they do financial coaching and counseling with their clients.

Speaker 1:

Mary, I think the fact that you touched on, you know, what they talked about in terms of pride that practice, but really even coming out of the pandemic and 2020, over the last couple years, there has been even more of an emphasis and urgency for financial wellness, financial education and financial literacy and the field as a whole is growing. And there are more and more opportunities across all sectors. And so, you know, I hope our listeners have learned a lot from this career series and this week we're actually doing a connections fair . And so we really encourage you to check out the a F C P E community attend the connections fair, where you can find jobs or internships or network with the others in the field, visit our website and our career pages to learn more about careers and the AFC certification.

Speaker 2:

If you enjoy the show today, please share it with a friend. This helps others discover the podcast and become a part of our community.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time.