Entrepreneurship, Financial Coaching, and all things Certification with Josh Escalante Troesh and Garrett Philbin, AFC®

In this week's episode, we're continuing our Career Series by diving deep into the world of financial coaching and the ups and downs of owning your own business with Josh Escalante Troesh and Garrett Philbin, AFC®.

Josh and Garrett discuss the importance of community, investing in yourself, as well as detailing the difference between licensure and certification and why they're relevant. They provide tons of useful resources, and their combined wisdom can really speak to wherever you're at in your career, making this episode a must-listen!

Both Josh and Garrett are co-founders of Financial Coaches Network, a business incubator/accelerator that supports entrepreneurs in building their businesses. Garrett holds his AFC® Certification, began financial coaching in 2015 and is the founder of a successful financial coaching business and the Financial Coaches Community Facebook group with over 5,000 members. Josh is a CFP and a Tenured Professor specializing in personal finance and entrepreneurship and has been quoted in Forbes, CNBC, Consumer Reports, US News & World Report, and dozens of other media.

Show notes:
01:45 Garrett's journey to starting a successful financial coaching business
03:47 Josh's unique start in the business and starting Financial Coaches Network with Garrett
05:34 Garrett’s pivot from the music business to the personal finance space
10:08 What made Garrett decide to earn the AFC?
12:32 All about licensure with Josh
20:16 Is there a need for a standardized definition of financial coaching?
24:44 Garrett’s insights on working in private practice 
29:56 The final 2 cents

Show Note Links:

• Garrett’s article on Kitces.com 
• Josh’s article on registration
• Financial coaching network (FCN)
• Financial Coaches Community Facebook Group
• Josh’s non-profit: Purposeful Finance
• Josh's LinkedIn
• Garrett's LinkedIn

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome to real money, real experts, a podcast we're leading financial counseling and coaching experts share their stories, their challenges, and their advice for helping people manage money and the real world. I'm your host, Rachel da own interim executive director of the association for financial counseling and planning education or AF F C P

Speaker 2: 0:25

E. And I'm your co-host Dr. Mary Bell Carlson, an accredited financial counselor or AFC, and the CEO of Carlson consulting. Every episode, we're taking a deep dive into the topics that personal finance professionals care about helping clients, building community in your professional growth. Today, we are excited to welcome Josh Escalante, TRO and Garrett Philbin to the show. Josh is a CFP and a tenured professor specializing in personal finance and entrepreneurship. He is a co-founder of financial coaches network, a business incubator and accelerator that supports entrepreneurs and building their businesses. He's been quoted in Forbes, CNBC, consumer reports, us news and world report, and dozens of other media. Garrett started financial coaching in 2015, and he built a successful financial coaching business growing it to over$80,000 of revenue. In the first four years, he holds his AF C certification and is the founder of the financial coaches community Facebook group with over 5,000 members. He is also the co-host of the financial coaches network podcast. Welcome Garrett. Welcome Josh. We're so glad you came to the show today,

Speaker 1: 1:36

Garrett, let's start with you. You wrote an article for kitz.com in 2017. That seemed to really be the beginning of your path to coach other business owners. Tell us about your journey to starting a successful financial coaching business.

Speaker 3: 1:51

Ooh, that is a lot, but in a great way. I think first and foremost, that gets us article when I wrote it. I was only about two and a half years in, so the podcast that Josh and I have, we talk about imposter in a fair amount. And I had a whole lot of it writing that article, but it still resonated with lots and lots of coaches. And I bring that up because also when I was getting started as a financial coach, I had a lot of imposter syndrome as well. And wondering if I could this, how I could do this. And I, I just kind of leap in and started the business. There are definitely pros and cons to that approach and many things I would've done very differently, but taking that leap did allow me to get started and just dive right in. And, you know, I originally came from the world of the music business. So it was a complete career shift. I know that there are many people in the Facebook group that are career changers as well. And I just really tried to do at least some initial research saying like, okay, well, what do financial coaches do? What, what other financial coaches are out there? Uh, which also led me to starting the Facebook group. And there was just a lot, a lot of trial and error in the beginning because to be honest, I didn't do a great job at finding community at having conversations with a lot of other coaches. I found a lot of financial planners, but not a lot of financial coaches. And so I, I spent a lot of time kind of doing things and trying things out. Whereas if I would've spent more time connecting with other people and learning from what they'd already done, I would've saved myself a lot of time and a lot of heartache.

Speaker 2: 3:35

I think it's interesting too, that I met you very early on in those early years. And as your career has developed and changed, it is a growth pattern, right? It's not a, a perfect one stop solution. Now, Josh, you've had a very different career start than Garrett. Tell us a little bit about how you got in the business and started financial coaches network with Garrett

Speaker 4: 3:56

Background is really in marketing. So both of my degrees are in marketing. And when I started teaching college classes, it was actually around internet strategy marketing and those types of areas. And I kind of came to financial services, we'll call it in a roundabout way through the marketing department. I was a vice president of marketing and business development for a credit union, 2008. That was a very bad year to be a bank executive. So that ended abruptly.

Speaker 3: 4:30

Yep.

Speaker 4: 4:32

And, uh, I started teaching a lot more personal finance classes around that time. I learned a lot more about the non sales side of the industry and that's kind of how I started it. I, uh, started that journey toward opening up my own firm and then ultimately, you know, becoming a part of, uh FCN with Garrett. Uh, I was watching what he was doing and, you know, we connected and I did that financial coaches. There was a lot of support for the coaching side of financial coaching, but there wasn't a lot of support for the marketing side and the operations side. And so that's what FCN is really for is the marketing, the sales and the operations side of the business. Garrett

Speaker 1: 5:19

Pivoting a little bit. You mentioned earlier that you enter this field as a career changer. And I think a lot of people find themselves in that place. A lot of times, people who enter this field often have something that they walked through financially. I'm curious, what made you pivot from the music business to the personal finance space?

Speaker 3: 5:39

I wish I could say there was some kind of mass to plan, but it, it kind of surprised me. So I had studied music business in college. That's what my degree was in. I'd worked in the music industry for about five years in New York. And I just realized, I didn't love the music industry and kind of had this crisis of conscience. And I was like, well, what the hell do you do? And what you went to school for and what you've done for the first real, like five real years of my working life. Aren't what I want to do. And so that was, there were a lot of challenging conversations, both like internally in my head. And then with some of the founders, as we realized, we wanted to go separate ways. And it was actually one of my co-founders. We would have multiple hour long conversations multiple times a week. Cause we were trying to figure out what to do. And I still remember it in my mind, like he was sitting on the chair and I was lying down on our, on the couch, in the music production studio, kind of like a therapy session. And at one point he was like, you know what the, you love to teach. You love to mentor. For some reason you nerd out around personal finance, more than anyone else I've seen. Is there anything there? And it was so interesting cuz like a light bulb went off where these like connections were made in a way I'd never thought before. And I just couldn't get it outta my head. I remember going back home and writing down all these ID ideas and Evernote of like ways that I could help people around money or with their money. Uh, cuz I also saw a lot of my friends needing support and working in New York and making that quote unquote good money, which to me was like close to a hundred K and up and just like not having anything to show for it, feeling behind hearing themselves to other people and just not being where they wanted to be. And so I was just like, huh, how can I help the people around me, who I see that are struggling? And so I reached out to a lot of financial planners, financial advisors fairly quickly learned that, that wasn't what I wanted to do. Not because I actually connect with too many of the sales type people. I actually made a lot of friends and connections with the, uh, people at the XY planning network. But I just realized rather than doing comprehensive planning or estate planning, investment planning, college planning, I was like, I wanna help people a lot more with the behavioral side, with the nuts and bolts of the day to day, week to week what's coming in, what's going out, where is it going? Is it alignment with your priorities and values? What stuff is coming up, uh, around your money stories and the scripts that's getting in the way. And that I, I just didn't hear as much of that. Wasn't the way that their business models were really set up. It's kind of a different service offering. That's when I was, well, I'm just gonna go start this. And again, kind of the pro of having my approach of just jumping in with both feet is I got started and dove right in. And the downside was like, well, would've been a little bit helpful to have some more framework around what it could look like before flailing around for a couple years. Um, but yeah, that was the kind of circuitous and Serendip at his path of how I came to even think that I would want to do this

Speaker 1: 8:44

Well. And it's interesting too, I'm sure a lot of the jumping in feet first and learning as you go, you've now been able to step back and having gone through some of those early struggles, you know, you can help others navigate those a little better.

Speaker 3: 8:57

Yes. One of the things that we've offered, people can just jump on a 20 minute call with me. And so I've had some people jump on calls and they're like, you know, I, I really want to build my coaching business or here's what I want to do. And I, I just don't know the right path. And it's been really interesting. How many of these calls where at the end of it, they're kind of like, I don't even like, know what I want to do with my life anymore, but this is great. You cuz they have this idea of what they think they want to do or why they should do it. And, and we just get into a conversation of like, what do you really want and why do you wanna start this? And what do you want it to look like? And what's really underneath that. And I think like you said, having that experience and starting multiple different businesses and different industries, it's helped me to have some perspective to help people, not just go on the path they think they should go on, but say, okay, yeah. What, what is it that you really want? Which I think any good coach, that's really the most important thing they can do.

Speaker 1: 9:54

So Garrett, so people get into this industry by deciding they want to go into financial counseling or financial coaching and they immediately seek out a certification. You started working as a financial coach and then recently became AFC certified. What made you decide to earn the AFC

Speaker 3: 10:12

Good question. I think probably what had me not get the AFC earlier was well a mixture of a couple different things. I would say a little bit of hubris if you will. And a little bit of feeling like I had to try and get the business up to a certain point where I was like, oh, I just don't have time for this yet. And that's part of my own struggle. I've been working through of like time scarcity and not feel like I, I have enough time, but I actually took the coursework. I, I did the coursework for the AFC through distance learning at Texas tech back in late 2016 or early 2017. So did all the coursework and then just never took the exam. So I actually to give myself a little bit more credit after working with clients for about a year and a half or so, I was like, okay, I I'm doing a pretty good job. And I think I know a decent amount, but also I probably should do this. Like figuring out what I don't know and making sure that I am doing a better job at identifying what my potential blind spots are. And so that's why I initially went you and um, did the coursework with the intention of taking the exam, then just ultimately pushed off taking the exam, but wish I would've done it earlier. There's just a part of me that after I took the exam, after I'd put it off for a while, just like felt a lot more committed to, um, the continuing education piece or at least in that structured way, which I think is a very important piece. I do love to learn on my own, but there's something really beneficial to the way that y'all set it up and

Speaker 4: 11:41

I'll throw in that. I'm sure it's the same for the AFC. I know it's the case for the bar exam, the CPA exam, the CFP exam, et cetera, et cetera. The sooner someone takes the test after the coursework, the higher percentage chance they have of passing. Meaning when you look at people who take the exam right away after the coursework, that group has the highest percentage pass rate and it drops as you look at groups who take it further and further out

Speaker 1: 12:11

Josh that's so true. I think, you know, we always tell people who are going through the program, take it while it's in your head. We do review sessions and we say, get that date on the calendar because the longer you wait, the more apprehensive you get and it becomes easier to put it off

Speaker 4: 12:27

And the tax law changes and you have to start all over again.

Speaker 5: 12:31

That's so

Speaker 2: 12:32

True. So Hey Josh, let me jump over to you. You both, you and Garrett did a podcast that will include in the show notes a while back about certification versus licensure. And I wanna jump into this. So Garrett talked a little bit about certification. I wanna jump into licensure with you cuz this is one of the most common questions that I get about financial coaching is do I need to be registered to become a financial coach? Can you give us like your two minute version of that?

Speaker 4: 12:59

Yeah. So let's start with defining license and certification in like a ten second quick version. Most professions, the license and the certification are the same. So bar exam gives you both with financial services. There is the license which gives you the legal right to do something. And there is the certification which certifies that you actually know what the hell you're talking about. There are lots of people who fact there are entire companies and financial services that are multilevel marketing companies and the advisors that they have, the experts that they have, the financial coaches, cuz they're starting to call themselves financial coaches as well that they have my students halfway through the semester have had more testing and more education on personal finance than the advisors do because the license is literally a one week of study and a 30 minute test. And so it's very important that we look at it. The certification like the AFC is that is what says, you know what you're doing so that you're at least less likely to harm a client. The license is I have a legal ability to do something. A lot of people say, you know, well, no, you don't need to be licensed to be a financial coach. And I don't like that phrasing. I don't like that, that presentation of it because it's, it's not really true. You don't need to be licensed in order to talk with someone about budgeting, about debt and about accounts at financial institution that are insured and guaranteed by the federal government as to both principle and interest said another way, savings accounts and checking accounts at F D I C and N C a insured credit unions and banks. So if that's what you're talking about with clients, you're right, you don't need to have any license for that. Once you move into talking about life insurance, where you move into talking about investments, where you move into talking about their 401k estate planning taxes, there are a whole host of laws and they vary from state to state. So it's not that there's even one answer that can be given of what licenses you would need to talk about each of those things. And to what degree already there are states where if you are providing financial guidance, we'll call it to people. Uh, it does not matter whether you call yourself a financial coach, financial counselor or whatever, uh, you have to be registered as an investment advisor. So there are already states that have put that out there. And so I, I don't like it when people say that because while technically it's true with a very, very limited scope, it can be very, very misleading for people. And I'm not saying that all financial counselors and financial coaches need to go out and get licensed and everything else. It's just important that they have an understanding that that answer is gonna depend on what I talk about with clients. And it's gonna depend on what state that I live in.

Speaker 2: 16:07

Thank you. I agree. I think that there's so much that we don't talk about on this with financial coaching. I think one of the best articles I've ever read is actually on your website about do you need to be licensed as a financial coach and we'll make sure and also include that in the show notes today. But I think this is a really important conversation to have with those that are thinking about getting into financial coaching. Because whether you are, you've said this before, you're intentionally trying to skirt around it, or whether you're innocently, just trying to help other people. You need to know these things because these are really important parts of people's life is their personal finances and it could be detrimental to them. If you don't know what you're doing,

Speaker 1: 16:49

I'm curious, this question could be for Garrett or for Josh, but we're he hearing the word financial coach, financial counselor. A lot of these words used interchangeably and at a F C P E we have sort of an idea about the differences between the two of them. We often say that financial coaching is a technique that whether you're a planner or a counselor that you use where you're putting the person first at you're holding person in the center as the expert in their life, and you're moving them forward toward financial wellbeing. I'm curious what your take is on that for lack of better terminology. I think the term coach is, is sexy and it sounds better to a consumer than a counselor, but oftentimes they're doing very similar work. I'm curious what you're the, is there

Speaker 3: 17:35

I a hundred percent agree that, you know, coach being the kind of seemingly sexier title or originally I think I was like, oh, maybe I'll call myself like a financial life coach. That's pretty hip, you know, like just put all the buzzwords together that people want. It kind of reminds me not directly, but having some like similarities to the certification versus licensure where it's like, sometimes it's defined as the actual what the person's like job is, or maybe a better a way of putting it like the profession, if you will. So like a financial coach versus a financial planner and kind of what the technical differences are. Okay. Financial planner can work with investments. Financial coach generally doesn't work with investments kind of helps people get to the point where they could work with a financial planner where they have the foundation set. But it's interesting to year the definition that you use where I also a hundred percent agree that financial coaching is more of a verb than just a noun. And it's something that can be done by coaches, financial coaches, financial counselors, financial planners, investment advisors. And so it's more of the practice. Um, I think it, in the past, I've defined it more from the kind of job duties, if you will, and saying, okay, so financial coaches and trying to put a barrier between just in people's minds of like, okay, financial planners. And this is again how I came. I defined financial planners from like the fee only fiduciary standpoint, cuz that's everyone who I talked to and getting into the field of financial coaching. And then I realized like, well, holy crap, apparently that's not the entire world of financial

Speaker 6: 19:18

Advisors and planners who knew.

Speaker 3: 19:21

Uh, and so, you know, I also understand like with my, my own journey has colored how I answer that question and I've generally it more as, you know, financial coaches help people with financial basics in addition to helping them with their mindset and behaviors in order to get them to the place where they are able to get out of debt, where they have enough savings to feel comfortable. And then when they're able to like have enough, both money and the habits and behaviors in place to be able to take the next step and work with a financial planner

Speaker 1: 19:52

To us, we've always sort of considered financial coaching as a verb. And I don't know that there is a right or wrong answer. It's just hard in the field that is so full of alphabet soup from a client perspective, to understand the differences between counseling, coaching, planning therapy, when they're all used. So interchangeably. I don't know if that will solve this today.

Speaker 2: 20:16

Josh, I have to ask you as a fellow academic though, do you feel that there is a need for a standardized definition of financial coaching?

Speaker 4: 20:24

Is there a need? Yes, it is very difficult for that to be created though without some form of government intervention. And this is kind of where my unpopular answer comes in, which is there is no difference between financial counseling and financial coaches because everyone kind of gets to define it. However they want. There's a lot of overlap in how people define it and to the consumer, there isn't a difference. It's, it's just different marketing terminology. The same problem occurs within the financial advising financial planning field. You know, anyone can call themselves that you can't call them yourself a certified financial planner, a CFP, but anyone can call themselves a financial or a wealth advisor or a money manager or a fill in the blank. And it is oftentimes done to confuse the public, to muddy the waters. You know, the insurance agents and stock brokers used to have insurance agent on their business card nowadays. They don't very often, it's a almost always something else. And I, I think until there's a governmental oversight of, you know, this title can only be used under this circumstance until that type of thing exists. I, I think it's, I would love there to be a definition, but I think it's dangerous for are groups to start creating unenforceable definitions because it opens up the opportunity for confusion amongst the consumer and for other people to kind of co-opt these terms and these definitions. Now, one thing that could have happen, uh, Napa for a while in, in the financial planning world had a trademark on fee only financial planner, meaning you could not use it unless you had permission from Napa and trademark law is how the CFP and the AFC also protect their, their nations. And so that is a way to do it, but as I'm sure you, you both are well aware defending a trademark. It's not extraordinarily costly from a financial standpoint, but it is very costly from a time standpoint and it can get costly from a financial standpoint as well, but really a it's the it's the time it takes in order to make sure that you're well defended when a court case comes around. Cause ultimately that's how you defend it.

Speaker 2: 22:57

Josh. I also think it's really interesting with your marketing background too, cuz you mentioned what people put on a business card and right now it's what consumers want to hear, right. Or what they think they want to hear and whatever hell helps make those sales better and better. Would you say that's true.

Speaker 4: 23:13

Yeah. I mean, take a look. You can look at, you know, a lot of the products from, and I keep beating up on the insurance industry. I love insurance. I think it's really important,

Speaker 7: 23:24

Right?

Speaker 4: 23:24

The industry, however, has had some marketing, uh, problems in their past with regard to how they market things. But you know, there, there are certain products where the names of the products have like 20 or 30 different marketing names and they literally just sort of go through them. Oftentimes multi-level marketing, not just in financial services, but in general they will change their names because they kind of like ruin their reputation. And so they change their name. And the same thing happens with the titles of financial advisors so that we're not beating up on insurance completely. You look at high yield bonds, you know, in the eighties they were called junk bonds. Then they were called high yield bonds. Then they were called yield augmented bonds. Then they, then they were called extended yield bonds. And the reason why is because everyone bought them, then they realized, oh, these are paying high interest rates. Cuz all these companies are going bankrupt. Like literally some of'em are in bankruptcy court and everyone loses all their money and no one wants to touch it. So we have to come up with a new branding for these things to get people, to buy them. And yeah, I think that it's very much a potential danger

Speaker 2: 24:31

And it's not just a regulatory issue or a legislative. It's a marketing. I mean, that's, there's so many components of this. They're wrapped up into it. Uh, not just a simple standard straightforward let's come up with a definition and move forward. Thank

Speaker 1: 24:44

You, Garrett. Let let's pivot back to the topic today of careers and many of our professionals are interested in starting a private practice or have dabbled in private practice or might be interested in turning their side gig into a full-time private practice. What advice would you offer to someone who's going down this career path?

Speaker 3: 25:04

A make sure it's what you wanna do B find community and then C get support around the business building side of it. Um, it's something that I see a lot in the coaches in the financial coaches community and from my own experience where a, I got clear on, okay, this is what I want to do a hundred percent then, you know, B I kind of unfortunately missed the community step, but C you know, I had at least some business experience, but there's a big, big difference between being a good practitioner or being a good coach and then being a good business owner because you can be fantastic coach and have no one sign up and then those skills go to waste. Uh, and so that's one of the reasons why we started financial coaches network is there, there are so many people that want to be financial coaches or counselors, and that are really, really talented, um, and are good at it, or have a lot of experience doing it for non-profit group groups or just other companies. And then they wanna start out on their own and then they, they aren't successful in the way that they want to be because it's a very different animal being a successful business owner. And that's why, uh, when Josh reached out, um, and we initially were talking, I was like, oh yeah, his perspective. I think why, um, we've worked well together is that he brings a very different perspective and, um, his experience. And so by kind of like captain planting it, uh, with our powers combined, you know, we're able to, to bring our, our unique perspectives and our, our experiences, I here are the, I oftentimes bring the perspective of like, here's what not to do. And then Josh gets to say, and also here's what to do. Uh, and why, you know, cuz he's taught or worked with, I think it's over a thousand entrepreneurs and teaches entrepreneurship. So it, it's a really nice be of having the two and, and being able to, to really say, Hey, if I haven't done this entrepreneurship thing before, let me get support, cuz there, it can seem really nebulous. It can seem like they're 500 million people telling you to do 500 different million things to be successful. Like God, if you start a newsletter, you're, you'll be successful. If you start a blog, if you start, go on TikTok, if you do social media and there's more of a, I don't wanna say like a, a step by step foolproof process that only you can get from FCN, but there are particular things in particular orders that are really helpful for you to have the highest chance of being successful as a business owner. And I'll let Josh fill in.

Speaker 4: 27:44

Yeah. I, I think that one of the things as well, that's really important and Garrett kind of talked to it, which is there, there is so much out there that you can do. You know, we, we just had an office hours last night and this is very common with, with new people going through our launch program. And they, you know, it's extremely common where they're like, I, I, I am, I feel like I'm so far behind it's because there is always more that you can do when you run a business. A business is like being in a abusive relationship because all it knows how to do is take, you know, it just, it just takes from you. And so in addition to knowing what to do, it's really helpful to know what you don't have to do now. And I think that's one of the big things to, for anyone listening to this, if you're thinking about starting a business, be very, very careful about where you get your information from. There's a lot of, it's all rainbows and unicorns and it's easy pitches out there for starting businesses. And you know, there's a lot of, here's all the things you have to do and you will always feel behind, you will always have analysis paralysis because there's more to do. And just having, figuring out what you don't need to do is is oftentimes more important than figuring out what you do, do everything you say yes to. You've said no to 99 other things,

Speaker 2: 29:19

The joys of being a business owner. Right? And I think this is why it's such a great connection between a F C P E and financial coaches network is that you all provide that business support. And then we also provide community Garrett. That's one of the things you've consistently named throughout this podcast is community and there's communities for you at any point in phase, right? Certification community membership community will also the financial coaches community as well. So know that you don't have to start your coaching adventure alone and really reach out to as many communities and get involved as much as you can now to wrap up their show, we always ask our guests this question, or are your or 2 cents. So these are the biggest takeaways for our listeners. If you had one piece of advice to offer financial professionals, what would it be?

Speaker 3: 30:08

Get clear on what you really want and only do things that you genuinely feel help you get closer to that maybe just a little bit of expansion is like, there'll be so many different ways that you can put your business different ways of marketing it. And a lot of times coaches or business owners will do things because they feel like they have to, anyone can be successful doing it in any kind of way, make sure that the way you do it resonates with you because then you'll stick with it. When the suck happens, which happens a lot as a business owner,

Speaker 4: 30:39

I'm gonna do a twofer and you is I would, what did I? And that is, you know, the, the biggest piece of advice that I can get. And I'll wrap it up into one concept, which is check your hubris. So this comes from the perspective of it doesn't matter how well you were able to get your finances in order. That is a sample size of what you need to have an understanding of other people's situations. Uh, a deeper understanding of personal finance. You know, that's where things like certification can come in, you need to have support and help with regard to your ability to start a business, run a business, you need to have help and support with regards to your ability to manage the client relationship that goes from having the initial sales calls all the way through to how do you guide a client to make hard decisions that they don't want to make once they are a client and you, you need to not view how you run your business or your career, the same way that you view, how you run your finances. There is this elevation of the idea of being frugal. That is this, you know, this is the thing that you should be if you're in a personal finance space. And, but it's really important to realize that spending on your career or on your business is not the same thing as spending money to go out for sushi Because your career and your business generate income. And the more you spend on them, the more you invest into you, shouldn't be looking at spending on your career and your income as though it was spending, you know, it's not your budget, it's your 401k, it's investing into your 401k. And that's a really, really important thing to have an understanding of. And a lot of it comes from this idea of hubris of, well, I already know everything I need to know to help other people or, you know, I'm sure I can run a business or, you know, I'm successful with my financial life. So I'm going to manage my business and my career and same way. And you can't

Speaker 1: 33:01

Thank you both for joining us on the show today. Please tell our listeners where they can connect with you.

Speaker 4: 33:06

Probably the easiest way to connect to us is financial coaches network, because you don't have to have a Facebook page for it. So you can go to financial coaches, network.com. Uh, you can also email us at info financial, which is network.com. For any of you who are interested in a, in starting a business, there's a bunch of free resources on the start here page. So when you go to the website, you can click on, start here and it'll, it'll take you to, to a bunch of free resources and Garrett, you want to talk about the Facebook group

Speaker 3: 33:36

And if you are on Facebook, there is a Facebook group called the financial coaches community. And there are just about 5,000 other current or aspiring coaches in there. We have some really great conversations, free resources available there as well. And like we spoke about community, community, community.

Speaker 2: 33:54

Thank you both very much for joining us. And we're so glad to have you on.

Speaker 3: 33:57

Thank you,

Speaker 1: 33:58

Mary was so great talking to Garrett and Josh today. What I love about them is they are really authentic. They're real. And they're humble. I mean, you know, Garrett was really forward and upfront with us about imposter syndrome when he first started out and as brave as he was, or I don't know if brave was the word he used to jump in into something that he knew, nothing about just like everyone else. He struggled with imposter syndrome too. And when he spoke about the exam, you know, the AFC exam and knowing the need for certification, especially for his clients, you know, just being open that everybody goes through those things. And so for people that are looking to get into this part of the field, you know, I think those are just really important things to remember. The other thing I really wanted to touch on. And, and they didn't say this directly today, but we talked a little bit about certification, the need for it. And the field in general and how financial counseling and financial coaching, isn't a regulated field. You know, it doesn't always require a license, but I think that is what makes the AFC so important. And the fact that the AFC is an accredited designation. There are a lot of designations out there. You know, anybody sadly can say that they're a certification program and what really sets the AFC apart and lets your clients know, you know, it's sort of that regulation by default that the field doesn't have right now, you're telling your client that you value them enough to make sure that you are staying up to date on your knowledge, not only covering what you need in terms of the financial life cycle, but also just knowing when to refer. Some of that education is knowing what you don't know. And so, you know, I just, I admire what they're doing in the field. I think there are a lot of people out there doing this work and a lot of people are doing good work without certification, but I, I do think that when you get to that point in your business, oftentimes you don't know what you don't know and the value of community and the value of having that mark behind your name is really something you owe to your client.

Speaker 2: 36:06

We're still very much in the wild, wild west when it comes to financial coaching and, and Josh and Garrett both have talked about this extensively is we also have to recognize, I think at point regulation welcome when that happens. We don't know, but I think it's really important to recognize that we are dealing with some of the most important aspects of people's life. There is nothing that happens in a person's life that really doesn't have some kind of financial consequence, right. Or some kind of financial implication. And so it's one thing to say, Hey, I think Josh mentioned this the other day in one of his podcasts is he said, it's one thing to have a bad haircut, but every person getting a haircut has to be licensed. And yet here we are helping people with their financial wellbeing and their future. And yet there is no licensure. So I think it's just a matter of time before that happens. I also think it makes it really important. And that's why I think Garrett and Josh both have done such great work here. I've I've seen Garrett's career. Well, I met him very early on and have enjoyed sitting back and watching just him blossom in this field. And I remember when he wrote Chris's article and I reached out to him and just said, great work. And then I ever since he, I actually had an idea several years ago of a similar business model, but was never able to pull it off. And they've just done incredible things with this new coaching network and really helping people that are interested in the world of financial coaching. And I appreciate that. I love that. Garrett's also introduced me to Josh because I think the academic side of Josh really resonates with, with me where he's very grounded, where he, I love his articles where he talks about the importance of regulation and it's not just, Hey, call yourself a financial coach and get some money from people it's really grounded in, okay, here's what you need to know. And, and like he said in the podcast, ignorance is not a reason that you can tell a regulator, oh, I just didn't know that doesn't work. That doesn't cut it. And, and that's not fair to clients that are receiving your advice. So it's really important to get certified, to know more about the field, if nothing else, it not only connects you to community, but it helps, you know, more it and understand more so that you can help more people. And I love what they're doing to help connect people to the right resources. If you enjoy the show today, please share it with a friend. This helps others discover the podcast and become a part of our community.

Speaker 1: 38:34

Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time.